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[Crimson_Ham]

For some background: I got two chinchillas about a month ago. The person I got them from had only had them for 6 months and lets leave it at simply- didn't take such good care of them. I named them Sorley (male) and Xochitl (female). They are a bonded pair that have had a kit before.

I started getting them used to me and my family and our scents by getting them out of their cage every day (well at night but you know what I mean) and giving them a treat as I pet them. After a week or two of only being seen by my family not pet by them I started letting the kids pet them one at a time while they were out. Sorley is not used to us all and tries to come see us all the time (even tries to climb out after we put him back while we -read I- try to catch Xochitl). Xochitl hasn't gotten anywhere near that point. Every time I reach into the cage she would bark and run and nip at me... now she sniffs for a treat and if I don't have one in hand she barks and runs and nips... I can't keep it in hand while I get her because Sorely tries to walk over and eat it for her lol. It takes about 10 minutes to corner and catch her and another 5 to get her calmed down to not trying to run away.

I figured I'd just keep working with her but then last night I was trying to get her from under the wheel and Sorley (having been in the wheel) leaned over and tried to sniff her when she started barking at me and she bit him in the nose!

I heard that when the female goes into heat it gets more aggressive (and not wanting a kit right now nor wanting to get either of them fixed) so I put her in our other cage after her daily holding. The cages are side by side so they can see and smell each other still . But I checked her while I was petting her and she doesn't look dilated so I don't think she's in heat right now...

So now to my questions... Could she be being more aggressive for some other reason? Am I wrong and she doesn't need to be dilated at all to be in heat? Should I just leave her be for now and not handle her till she's calmer?

Another dilema this presents is I am getting another chinchilla this weekend (the original reason for the second cage... I was just going to have 2 originally but seeing as how badly they were treated and that she was willing to give me the female for 30$ - which I could afford- I couldn't leave Xochitl there like that... Espescially after I found out they were bonded already. That's just mean.) and it's a 9 week old male. I can't decide if I should keep them all together (assuming she gets less aggressive) except when shes in heat or if I should house the males together and her separately. Or for that matter Keep the pair together and give the young one (Dagda) the second cage...

On the upside I do know someone that wants a chin if I do end up with a kit (I don't know if she was pregnant when I got her or not) so I do have a home found already in case I need one for any surprise additions.

Any input is appreciated.


Btw- other possibly pertinent info and ramblings-
 The 2 I already have are a standard gray (Xochitl) and either another (but darker) standard gray or a light black velvet (Sorley). They appear to be about a year old... Xochitl may have been attacked by the last owners dog. She had hair growing back on both hid quarters and the baby was not present in the cage and we weren't told what happened to it. She isn't afraid of a family dog at our place as the only other pet is my daughters rabbit.
Dagda is a black velvet... All three are adorable!

[Jo Ann]

    You have allot going on there ... even more than you may realize.  Lots of questions to answer ... each answer will help:

1) How old are Sorley & Xochitl?
Important:
      (a) At the tender age of 10 weeks, a male chinchilla has the ability to get a female chinchilla pregnant.
      (b) At the tender age of 3 1/2 to 4 months old a female chinchilla has the ability to get pregnant, but is not mature enough to be allowed to do so. (The birth canal is not large enough to safely deliver kits).
      (c) Even within the same family, two male chinchillas in the same cage will sometimes fight to the death for the right to impregnate a female that is in season ... even if they are caged together in a separate cage away from the female and neither can get to her.  This could happen any time the female goes into season ... it's called survival of the fittest.  (You might want to look for an additional cage or two.     )

2) What size are the cages you now have?  What is the distance between the wires both vertically and horizontally?  Please, post a picture, if possible.

3)  When a female is in season, she will be slightly swollen and more moist than usual and there will be what looks like a tiny dot of red blood in the crease.  Female chinchillas also tend to clean themselves more often during this time.  {As seen in the photos below.}

4)  Yes, the females can become more "aggressive" if you would like to put it that way, I tend to think it is more "fed-up" with the constant pestering by the male.  The male has the cutest little mating dance he will do ... it's called the "Swish-swish Tail Dance".  He will do a little "hop-hop" then swish his tail from side to side, hop hop and swish-swish again.  If you look closely, you may even see an eager look on his face or a sheepish grin.  This sounds like the female should appreciate this romantic courting ritual ... but ... the male starts this l-o-n-g before the female is in full season and continues to do it almost constantly until she in full season and gives in to him.      His part takes about 15 to 30 seconds.      So even "supervised playtime outside the cage" has to be very closely supervised!

5)  A bonded pair that is separated can cause problems ... chinchillas under stress or depressed can go down hill quickly ... they must both be watched carefully to make sure they each continue to eat and drink normal amounts of food and water.  Weight and any change in poops must be closely watched.

6)  Any time a pair of chins are placed in a breeding situation, there is always a chance of kits.  A breeding situation is any time a male, 10 weeks or older, and a female 3 1/2 months or older are placed in the same area to play or cage to live in together.

7) Spaying or neutering is extremely dangerous for chinchillas ... chinchillas do not react well to any surgery.  I will not allow one of mine to be operated on for any reason, unless it is a life threatening situation and there are no other choices available.

The 2 I already have are a standard gray (Xochitl) and either another (but darker) standard gray or a light black velvet (Sorley). They appear to be about a year old... Xochitl may have been attacked by the last owners dog. She had hair growing back on both hid quarters and the baby was not present in the cage and we weren't told what happened to it.

   Confused here.     Are you saying they have already had a kit/litter?

If a dog gets a hold of a chinchilla, it rarely survives.  I would ask what happened to her ... there may be an additional problem that may need to be addressed.    Some chinchillas like some dogs, while not liking other dogs.  Some dogs look at chins as playmates   (as does my oldest Great Dane check out: http://www.luvnchins.com/AChinsPointOfView.html ), while other dogs look at chinchillas as pretty play toys   (as does my youngest Great Dane -that's why she is not allowed around them), while other dogs might look at them as an expensive gourmet treat.     Chinchillas usually sense which one it is. 

Is Dagda the kit you are getting this weekend?

I figured I'd just keep working with her but then last night I was trying to get her from under the wheel and Sorley (having been in the wheel) leaned over and tried to sniff her when she started barking at me and she bit him in the nose!

  Personally, I think he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time ... remember, you were trying to get her out from under the wheel ... she already felt threatened.

9)  Do you think she is pregnant at this time?

   Jo Ann

Added: Female in season and not in season.

[Crimson_Ham]

   You have allot going on there ... even more than you may realize.  Lots of questions to answer ... each answer will help:

1) How old are Sorley & Xochitl?
Important:
      (a) At the tender age of 10 weeks, a male chinchilla has the ability to get a female chinchilla pregnant.
      (b) At the tender age of 3 1/2 to 4 months old a female chinchilla has the ability to get pregnant, but is not mature enough to be allowed to do so. (The birth canal is not large enough to safely deliver kits).
      (c) Even within the same family, two male chinchillas in the same cage will sometimes fight to the death for the right to impregnate a female that is in season ... even if they are caged together in a separate cage away from the female and neither can get to her.  This could happen any time the female goes into season ... it's called survival of the fittest.  (You might want to look for an additional cage or two.     )

To this first question the only answer I have available is older than 8 months. Our best ball park guess is 1-2 years old.
But due to part c above I'll be housing the boys separately.

2) What size are the cages you now have?  What is the distance between the wires both vertically and horizontally?  Please, post a picture, if possible.

http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/7/766501002577C.jpg
and
http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/9/9131834450C.jpg

are the cages I have for them at the moment. I also have several of this type cage ( http://shedsandpethomes.co.uk/images/cages.jpg ) that a family friend gave us that I am going to work on so I can make some decent size but not tall cages into more suitable cages for them (I have 6 of these and plan to make 2 cages of them...).
The "ferret mansion" is the one they are in now. I have added a ledge and plan to add more as I can for extra places to run, jump and climb on.

3)  When a female is in season, she will be slightly swollen and more moist than usual and there will be what looks like a tiny dot of red blood in the crease.  Female chinchillas also tend to clean themselves more often during this time.  {As seen in the photos below.}

4)  Yes, the females can become more "aggressive" if you would like to put it that way, I tend to think it is more "fed-up" with the constant pestering by the male.  The male has the cutest little mating dance he will do ... it's called the "Swish-swish Tail Dance".  He will do a little "hop-hop" then swish his tail from side to side, hop hop and swish-swish again.  If you look closely, you may even see an eager look on his face or a sheepish grin.  This sounds like the female should appreciate this romantic courting ritual ... but ... the male starts this l-o-n-g before the female is in full season and continues to do it almost constantly until she in full season and gives in to him.      His part takes about 15 to 30 seconds.      So even "supervised playtime outside the cage" has to be very closely supervised!

5)  A bonded pair that is separated can cause problems ... chinchillas under stress or depressed can go down hill quickly ... they must both be watched carefully to make sure they each continue to eat and drink normal amounts of food and water.  Weight and any change in poops must be closely watched.

This is very helpful. She is not in heat currently and he hasn't been "dancing". So I guess she was just more upset than usual... But she calmed down a lot last night and was put back in the other cage.

6)  Any time a pair of chins are placed in a breeding situation, there is always a chance of kits.  A breeding situation is any time a male, 10 weeks or older, and a female 3 1/2 months or older are placed in the same area to play or cage to live in together.

7) Spaying or neutering is extremely dangerous for chinchillas ... chinchillas do not react well to any surgery.  I will not allow one of mine to be operated on for any reason, unless it is a life threatening situation and there are no other choices available.

Yes this is why I don't want to get either "fixed"... Although we can always get a home found for a kit.

The 2 I already have are a standard gray (Xochitl) and either another (but darker) standard gray or a light black velvet (Sorley). They appear to be about a year old... Xochitl may have been attacked by the last owners dog. She had hair growing back on both hid quarters and the baby was not present in the cage and we weren't told what happened to it.

   Confused here.     Are you saying they have already had a kit/litter?


If a dog gets a hold of a chinchilla, it rarely survives.  I would ask what happened to her ... there may be an additional problem that may need to be addressed.    Some chinchillas like some dogs, while not liking other dogs.  Some dogs look at chins as playmates hugs  (as does my oldest Great Dane check out: http://www.luvnchins.com/AChinsPointOfView.html ), while other dogs look at chinchillas as pretty play toys wacko!  (as does my youngest Great Dane -that's why she is not allowed around them), while other dogs might look at them as an expensive gourmet treat.   Shocked  Chinchillas usually sense which one it is. 

Yes. The last owner didn't seem pleased with the thought (judging by tone and facial expression) when she let us know. But she didn't say anything more on the subject than they had had one while they were hers.
The guess on the dog was based on the fur displacement area and that she stays to the back corners and won't go near the front corners... the middle she seems ok with but not the corners. I am looking into a vet fairly experienced with chinchillas. She doesn't like anyone going near the area the fur is growing back. It's almost as long as the rest of her fur now.

Is Dagda the kit you are getting this weekend?

Yes. And he's sooooooooo adorable. 

I figured I'd just keep working with her but then last night I was trying to get her from under the wheel and Sorley (having been in the wheel) leaned over and tried to sniff her when she started barking at me and she bit him in the nose!

  Personally, I think he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time ... remember, you were trying to get her out from under the wheel ... she already felt threatened.

9)  Do you think she is pregnant at this time?

She isn't sleeping on her side (ironically it seems to be Sorley's favorite position to sleep in...) and she doesn't seem to be getting bigger around... Also she's quite active. At this point I don't believe so but I'm not certain. Since she's calmed down a lot it probably was coincidental that she nipped him.

I'm probably over thinking her behavior since she wasn't in good conditions or surroundings where I got her... but its always good to hear someone else say these things. Especially someone with more experience with the type of animal in question

The poor little things were kept in a woodworking shop, next to a wood furnace (the only thing between their cage and the outside door -keep in mind I'm in Alaska-) and their cage wasn't well kept on top of 3 dogs going in and out of the shop. As an animal lover seeing them in those conditions and knowing how they should be kept...It was deplorable and upsetting. 

[Jo Ann]

   God bless you for rescuing these little ones!  I could not fathom the idea of someone keeping little chins outside in Alaska ... or any other state for that matter ... our country (out of doors) is just not one that would be adaptable for chinchillas, in most cases, due to the weather.  The natural predators we have here are not ones that chinchillas in the wild are normally exposed to either, so they would be at their mercy most of the time.  The advantages the chinchilla has against prey is their size, their speed and the fact that the fur will "slip", leaving the predator with a mouth full of fur and not much more.  But, they can be easily scared to death and are susceptible to infection with an open wound.

Sorry to say that none of the cages you have are safe for a momma chin with kits.   Kits are born fully furred, eyes open and playing within the first hour or so after birth.  Any wire that is on a cage with kits in it should be 1/2" x 1" or smaller (1/2" x 1/2" is best) or they will be able to crawl/fall out of the cage.  The whelping cage, should not be over 15" tall.  Chinchilla kits will usually climb the side of the cage within the first 24 to 36 hours.  They can and will climb all the way to the top.  They can climb up, but not down .... so ... when they reach the top, they will turn loose and fall to the bottom.  If they hit anything on the way down (such as a hut or feeding bowl) it will probably kill the kit.  If the kit is falling from higher than 15", it could kill or damage the kit.

Pregnant or not?  I've had females delivering only one kit that never appeared or acted pregnant.  On the other hand, I have had a few that have had triplets and quads that I thought would burst open before they delivered.  Liberty, pictured below, is one that I thought would pop before she delivered her quads because of her size, and the fact that she carried them very high.  On the other hand, I had one female that was constantly having false pregnancies ... If  a female in the next cage (above, below or on either side) was pregnant ... Missy would also look and act pregnant, only to "slim-down" completely the day the other chin mom delivered her litter.    We were very shocked when she finally had a litter of her own, after 4 years of false pregnancies.   

   Jo Ann

[Debbie.nl.ca]

I'm a little mesmerized from reading all this 

But

That's just mean.) and it's a 9 week old male. I can't decide if I should keep them all together (assuming she gets less aggressive) except when shes in heat or if I should house the males together and her separately. Or for that matter Keep the pair together and give the young one (Dagda) the second cage...

You can't keep two males in the same cage with the female. I can't keep two males in the same cage in then same room as my females.
If you put a female with a male you'll get kits, there is no way to do rhythm method of birth control with chins.

[Crimson_Ham]

Sorry to say that none of the cages you have are safe for a momma chin with kits.   Kits are born fully furred, eyes open and playing within the first hour or so after birth.  Any wire that is on a cage with kits in it should be 1/2" x 1" or smaller (1/2" x 1/2" is best) or they will be able to crawl/fall out of the cage.  The whelping cage, should not be over 15" tall.  Chinchilla kits will usually climb the side of the cage within the first 24 to 36 hours.  They can and will climb all the way to the top.  They can climb up, but not down .... so ... when they reach the top, they will turn loose and fall to the bottom.  If they hit anything on the way down (such as a hut or feeding bowl) it will probably kill the kit.  If the kit is falling from higher than 15", it could kill or damage the kit.

I've sent an email asking a friend of mine that runs a animal rescue about an hour from my place if she has any cages for little ones... (Maybe trade a bigger one for her rescue?) and see if I can't be prepared... On the upside, I may be able to keep extra little ones should they arrive. My husband wasn't so keen on the idea after meeting Xochitl and Sorley but after he met Dagda -who is very friendly and loves to explore and be held- he said he'd like some more little black chinchillas  . I guess he just needed to meet one that hasn't been traumatized to see how charming they really are. Though I may end up with 2 more adults at my place since my mother in law might get a pair (rescued by the lady I got Dagda from) and keep them at my place until she moves to a place she can have pets. They'll come with their cage too (complete with an extra layer on the walls that's smaller than the original for kits not to escape ).

I discovered last night (Sorley is getting comfortable enough with being handled for me to see it) that Sorley is missing all but a little stub of his middle toe on a hind foot too.  But aside from that he still doesn't seem to have nearly so many injuries or traumas as Xochitl. And she's been getting more friendly... sometimes she'll let me pet her without panicking and other days not but a step in the right direction is a step whether or not it crosses the finish line...

I'm a little mesmerized from reading all this 

But

That's just mean.) and it's a 9 week old male. I can't decide if I should keep them all together (assuming she gets less aggressive) except when shes in heat or if I should house the males together and her separately. Or for that matter Keep the pair together and give the young one (Dagda) the second cage...

You can't keep two males in the same cage with the female. I can't keep two males in the same cage in then same room as my females.
If you put a female with a male you'll get kits, there is no way to do rhythm method of birth control with chins.

Due to my husband warming up to the fur kids I've stuck to my original plan and put Dagda in his own cage and the pair in theirs... I let Dagda in the same space as Sorley and Xochitl to see how they got along (to determine separate or together play time) but they didn't seem to keen on the idea of one another just yet lol. That's ok though since Dagda loves being out with the kids and exploring the house (in a ball, closely supervised...) and the kids love that he plays with them and that they can hold him (gently of course). My youngest is trying to teach Dagda peek a boo  it's adorable even though I doubt he'll ever do peek a boo instead of looking at her funny when she does it.

[LindyLu]

I don't have any advice of breeding or female stuff...as both my rescue chins are male, and live separately. (I have tried to help them get along, but they seem more content to be apart, so that's their choice).

Anyway, I just wanted to recommend a way to "catch" your chins. My Dewey boy (5 yr old standard) LOVES his dust bath so much, I use it to my advantage. (Dewey likes me a lot, but does NOT like to be grabbed at! And the only "petting" he likes is a scratch in the neck/chin/behind ears).
 So whenever I get him OUT of his cage, I open the door and put the bath house up, and he jumps in! I set the bath house on the floor and when he leaves it, I remove it from his access. Then when I am ready to "catch" him again, I just set the bath house down near him, and he runs right back inside it, and I pick it up while he's in it & return him to his cage. ...you may want to try that rather than chasing/cornering/grabbing at her. It may help you build a better bond with you that way too. Just an idea.

[Jo Ann]

... Anyway, I just wanted to recommend a way to "catch" your chins. My Dewey boy (5 yr old standard) LOVES his dust bath so much, I use it to my advantage. (Dewey likes me a lot, but does NOT like to be grabbed at! And the only "petting" he likes is a scratch in the neck/chin/behind ears).
 So whenever I get him OUT of his cage, I open the door and put the bath house up, and he jumps in! I set the bath house on the floor and when he leaves it, I remove it from his access. Then when I am ready to "catch" him again, I just set the bath house down near him, and he runs right back inside it, and I pick it up while he's in it & return him to his cage. ...you may want to try that rather than chasing/cornering/grabbing at her. It may help you build a better bond with you that way too. Just an idea.

Very good suggestion!  Glad you addressed that part ... I think we're all covering some of the other "problems" that are going on.

If you put a female with a male you'll get kits, there is no way to do rhythm method of birth control with chins.   

Amen

On the upside, I may be able to keep extra little ones should they arrive.

Keep in mind that there could be both male and female kits born ... they too will need their own cages.  When breeding, chinchillas ignore the fact that the other chin may be related to them.
Breeding is a whole new world, laced with much responsibility ... one that lasts a lifetime, and continues to affect the future generations, long after you are gone.
Please let you hubby know that color does not decide the personality and that TLC can often work wonders with one that has been abused in the past.   As a matter of fact, some of the most loving chins are those who have been able to learn to trust again.   

    Jo Ann

[Crimson_Ham]

  the friend I was going to borrow the cage from told me "Chinchillas are not like birds where if you seperate the male from the femail they will get so depressed and die.  If you have a male and female you should immediately seperate them.  "
Is it just me or is this wrong information (especially coming from a chinchilla breeder)?
I know I'm not an experienced breeder but does that mean I should move a pair of chins that have been together in the same cage for over 7 months and that were previously traumatized apart? And if she was pregnant when I got her what good would separating them "immediately" do?

Between that and this: " so yes I have cages for kits BUT because I have such a large operation I have expensive - large - wall unit like nursery cages.  Its not simply a cage which was converted to accomodate babies so unfortunately i can't just pick one up and bring one into town for you.  Sorry "
I've decided I'm only going to ask questions here and I'm going to make my own kit cage (use a little one I have and add a layer of smaller wire to it so the holes aren't so big...)

How frustrating!

... Anyway, I just wanted to recommend a way to "catch" your chins. My Dewey boy (5 yr old standard) LOVES his dust bath so much, I use it to my advantage. (Dewey likes me a lot, but does NOT like to be grabbed at! And the only "petting" he likes is a scratch in the neck/chin/behind ears).
 So whenever I get him OUT of his cage, I open the door and put the bath house up, and he jumps in! I set the bath house on the floor and when he leaves it, I remove it from his access. Then when I am ready to "catch" him again, I just set the bath house down near him, and he runs right back inside it, and I pick it up while he's in it & return him to his cage. ...you may want to try that rather than chasing/cornering/grabbing at her. It may help you build a better bond with you that way too. Just an idea.

Very good suggestion!  Glad you addressed that part ... I think we're all covering some of the other "problems" that are going on.

If you put a female with a male you'll get kits, there is no way to do rhythm method of birth control with chins.   

Amen

On the upside, I may be able to keep extra little ones should they arrive.

Keep in mind that there could be both male and female kits born ... they too will need their own cages.  When breeding, chinchillas ignore the fact that the other chin may be related to them.
Breeding is a whole new world, laced with much responsibility ... one that lasts a lifetime, and continues to affect the future generations, long after you are gone.
Please let you hubby know that color does not decide the personality and that TLC can often work wonders with one that has been abused in the past.   As a matter of fact, some of the most loving chins are those who have been able to learn to trust again.   

    Jo Ann

Thanks for the idea on "catching" her! I've been trying to get her used to my hands in general... I've been giving her a treat and trying to slide my hand under her and also been trying to get her to step on my hand to get her treats but she doesn't like to do that much so far... but she's getting better about it than she was a couple weeks ago. Getting her at least that used to my hands is helping her be more social and not panicked when she'd held... After I discovered Sorley was missing a toe I inspected her for that problem too. She was fairly calm excepting when I tipped her back a little to check her back feet. Luckily no missing toes After she was checked I held her by my chest some more and she calmed down and almost fell asleep on me  

I planned on reconstructing the other cages to suit chins anyway so that's not an issue  since I'll have a cage by the time it's big enough to be without momma

[LindyLu]

Sure! My 2 yr old is very "hand tame" he walked right onto my hand the day I met him, when I was a stranger to him (he must of known I was there to rescue him!) ...I've never had a problem catching him with my hands. It's just Dewey...he's not into being handled....but he sure LOVES his dust!

[Jo Ann]

the friend I was going to borrow the cage from told me "Chinchillas are not like birds where if you seperate the male from the femail they will get so depressed and die.  If you have a male and female you should immediately seperate them."
 ...does that mean I should move a pair of chins that have been together in the same cage for over 7 months and that were previously traumatized apart? ... Is it just me or is this wrong information (especially coming from a chinchilla breeder)? ...

Breeders often breed in runs rather than pairs.  Rarely, under those circumstances, does a pair get closely attached.   I have always done pair breeding and the parents are together for life ... Yes, they can get so depressed from being separated that they go into a deep depression and refuse to eat or drink ... I have seen it happen.  When they do, most of the time, one or both will die.  This is usually with two that have been together for years rather than months, but with chinchillas, you never really know how each will react.

Between that and this: " so yes I have cages for kits BUT because I have such a large operation I have expensive - large - wall unit like nursery cages.  Its not simply a cage which was converted to accommodate babies so unfortunately i can't just pick one up and bring one into town for you.  Sorry   "

Her comment may have sounded bad/short/sarcastic to you, but, many breeders do have what they call wall units made of "holding cages" for kits between the time they are 6 weeks old to the time they are adopted.  These "holding cages are usually connected in units of 3 to 6 cages in each unit. Each set of holding cages stack one on top of the other and are not individual cages.  I will try to attach a photo of a set of holding cages like/similar to the ones she referred to as a "wall unit".  The ones pictured come in sets of 4 cages built together as a single unit ... I put 2 sets side by side ... making a row of a 8, then stack them 4 high, giving me 32 holding cages as one wall unit.  My husband made me storage cabinets on rollers to go beneath each unit.  The storage units are used to store items needed for the chins and also to make it easy to move from one area to another when I am cleaning the floors and/or a quick evacuation, if needed, to get them out quickly and safely, in case of a fire.

I know I'm not an experienced breeder but does that mean I should move a pair of chins that have been together in the same cage for over 7 months and that were previously traumatized apart? And if she was pregnant when I got her what good would separating them "immediately" do?
Between that and this:

If they showed signs of depression or trauma when separated before, I would not separate them, unless the female is to young to be having kits.

...  After she was checked I held her by my chest some more and she calmed down and almost fell asleep on me  
I planned on reconstructing the other cages to suit chins anyway so that's not an issue since I'll have a cage by the time it's big enough to be without momma

Once a chin feels safe enough to fall asleep while you hold them ... you have won their trust.   

If you have a tall cage, you might think about laying it on it's side ... IF you can find something you could use for a pan underneath it.  Should you choose this method to make small cages out of one big cage, keep in mind the different cages will need a solid wall between them ... chins can, and often do, bite/fight each other between the wires, unless the distance between them is at least 3" apart.
OR ... you might think about constructing your own whelping cage ... they are not hard to make.  First you need to find a tray you can use as a pan to go under the cage ... this way, you will know the size the cage would have to be to be able to fit inside of or on the tray.  For the short period of time the kits would have to be in the whelping cage, you could probably safely construct the frame using wood rapped in 1/4" x 1/4" wire mesh, screwed together with wood screws, not nails, then cover it in 1/2" x 1/2" wire or 1/2" x 1" wire.  The simplest "door" would be made with the same wire placed on and used as the top of the cage.  It would need to be cut at least 2 or 3 inches longer or wider than the width or length of the cage.  Once the main part of the cage is made, you would need to fold/bend over to a 90 degree angle, the part that is extended past the cage.  This is making a lid/door that can be "locked" by using closing hooks similar to those found on keys used to hook on to a belt loop.  You will need at least 2 of these hooks.  The wire is traditionally hooked together using 'hog rings' and a special set of pliers.  This may sound a bit expensive, but once you make one, it may lead to making many.  We have made most of our cages.     If you need a little more detailed instructions, just let me know. 

  Jo Ann

Is this the breeder that sold you the pair?

[Debbie.nl.ca]

The pair have only been together for 7 months? Yes?

Breeders often breed in runs rather than pairs.  Rarely, under those circumstances, does a pair get closely attached.   I have always done pair breeding and the parents are together for life ... Yes, they can get so depressed from being separated that they go into a deep depression and refuse to eat or drink ... I have seen it happen.  When they do, most of the time, one or both will die.  This is usually with two that have been together for years rather than months, but with chinchillas, you never really know how each will react.

Jo Ann would that really be long enough to cause that kind of stress?
I swap males between females and only ever had a problem with a pair that was together for over 6 years.Yes the female died with in a year of the male, but they were both older chins.
I have often kept the male out until kits were weaned, and have often given Moms breaks between pregnancies.
I have some males that have 2 females in different cages, no runs?
There is a lot being covered in this thread all 


Oh and is possible it wasn't the dog but fur chewing?You said the 2 hind quarters had fur missing. That sounds like chewing to me. Just a though, she could be a stressfull chin and you may want to keep things from changing too much with her.And as they don't seem to have had the best of life before you rescued them, the other owner may not have wanted to say. Maybe?

[Jo Ann]

    

Jo Ann would that really be long enough to cause that kind of stress?

Not as a general rule, that's why I said "... usually with two having been together for years rather than months".  I was referring to chin pairs that had been together there whole life ... 7 to 10+ years.  But, she said they were traumatized once before when separated ... I was just going by her statement on that.  What she is considers as trauma, I'm not quite sure of at this point. 

Chinchillas can usually adapt to what ever they are use to.  If a male is use to having 2 females and the females are use to him going from one to the other ... then, that is the "routine" all three accept.   That is why most breeders breed in runs ... to avoid the possibility of trauma or depression due to loosing a chin (and because it is more cost conscious).

I, too, separate the mom and dad when mom delivers kits and/or if she needs an extended break from breeding, but I use special cages my husband made to be able to keep them 'together' with out actually being kept in the same cage.  Mine has 2 cages, divided by a solid metal wall with a "window" in the upper center of the wall so that they can still see and touch each other (paws and noses only).   I'll post a photo ...

I agree, there's allot going on in this one thread.   

    Jo Ann

[Crimson_Ham]

I only say seven months because I know the person I rescued them from had them for 6 months plus the 1 I've had them for... I have no idea how long they were together before that. Even age wise I was just making an educated guess...

Between that and this: " so yes I have cages for kits BUT because I have such a large operation I have expensive - large - wall unit like nursery cages.  Its not simply a cage which was converted to accommodate babies so unfortunately i can't just pick one up and bring one into town for you.  Sorry   "

Her comment may have sounded bad/short/sarcastic to you, but, many breeders do have what they call wall units made of "holding cages" for kits between the time they are 6 weeks old to the time they are adopted.  These "holding cages are usually connected in units of 3 to 6 cages in each unit. Each set of holding cages stack one on top of the other and are not individual cages.  I will try to attach a photo of a set of holding cages like/similar to the ones she referred to as a "wall unit".  The ones pictured come in sets of 4 cages built together as a single unit ... I put 2 sets side by side ... making a row of a 8, then stack them 4 high, giving me 32 holding cages as one wall unit.  My husband made me storage cabinets on rollers to go beneath each unit.  The storage units are used to store items needed for the chins and also to make it easy to move from one area to another when I am cleaning the floors and/or a quick evacuation, if needed, to get them out quickly and safely, in case of a fire.

Didn't sound bad or anything for that part... I understood it and all just venting from the email as a whole really. The demand that I separate an already traumatized pair in an unfamiliar environment "immediately" because I wasn't an experienced breeder was the part that ultimately got to me...

Is this the breeder that sold you the pair?

No. But I don't know who sold them to the owner I got them from.

Oh and is possible it wasn't the dog but fur chewing?You said the 2 hind quarters had fur missing. That sounds like chewing to me. Just a though, she could be a stressfull chin and you may want to keep things from changing too much with her.And as they don't seem to have had the best of life before you rescued them, the other owner may not have wanted to say. Maybe?

Now I wish I had taken a picture before the fur had grown back as much as it has so you could see it and give an opinion but I didn't and its getting pretty hard to see unless she sits a certain way. But I don't think its just her being a stressful chin and chewing her fur since she hasn't chewed her fur since I got her and she hasn't been entirely stress-less thus far (new place and 3 kids to get accustomed to). And would chewing have a uniform level of growth for that extreme of a chew area? She is getting better about the panicking though. She doesn't like to be pet much so far unless she's being held but she climbs on the front of the cage and into my hands (as long as I don't move and startle her)...

I'll have to borrow my daughters camera (mine needs a new charge cord) and get pictures of them... probably won't help with an idea of their age but never know, right?

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Your probably right I was just thinking it could be something to watch out for.
Chins are funny little critters.But ya gotta love 'm