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Author Topic: Miscarriage?  (Read 9423 times)

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Miscarriage?
« on: November 24, 2009, 06:15:05 PM »

Hi Guys.....I have a riddle for u :)

I purchased 2 Homo Beige girls in July of this year from a small breeder near me. Their B-Day is 5/1/09. 10 days later dad was put back in to be w/mom again. The breeder and I kept in touch, and when she decided to sell mom & dad I bought them. The breeder said she was due any day again, which would have added up w/the dates. I monitored her weight and it stayed the same until about a week later when she dropped 20grams. She put it back on within a week. I thought it might have been from me not feeding as many treats as their previous owner had (they were getting waaaay to much). So fast forward until last week.....still no babies (her belly is hard, but no movement can be felt) so we make a trip to the vet. She is carrying 2 kits, and has a few more weeks to go. They are healthy and fine.

So my question is:

Did she have a miscarriage when she lost the 20grams, and reabsorb the kit? 
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2009, 07:49:16 PM »

OK, so on 5/11 they were bred and her due date would be sometime after 08-30-2009.   If she is getting close to her due date that would be around the same time she got pregnant this last time.  Interesting...  About what date was this weight loss?  Any chance it was just a scale error?
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 12:07:34 AM »

They were put back together on 5/11/09, which made her "due" date 8/29/09. I bought her (and her mate) in early August, and they previous owner said she had just started laying on her side. I weighed her everyday, and triple checked the weight drop. It (the weight drop) was in the middle of August. I only went by the 28th for her due date, by assuming she bred on the 11th. of May. I didn't have her to see it for myself, which puts her "new" the 16th of December. That is right on w/the vet......Hope this helps :)
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 07:39:35 AM »

I'm having a hard time with it being an absorbed miscarriage that close to her due date.  I believe she would have had to have stillborns at that time as they would have been almost full term.  Its one thing for a mother to reabsorb a partially formed fetus in early stage pregnancy, but a full term baby would have been extremely difficult. It would have taken so much time to reabsorb that the mother has a very high chance of getting septic and dieing herself.   

It is not uncommon for a female to take months to get pregnant again after a litter. It depends on timing and the experience/pushiness of the male.   I'm thinking either she lost that first litter much earlier or she just didn't get pregnant again right away.    Many chinchillas lay on their side so that is not a good indication.  The weight loss could have been due to the change in environment.

You will never know for sure but that is my best guess.  :)

I can't wait to see pictures of the new babies.
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 08:16:31 AM »

I guess it could be possible she'd give birth to a cocooned kit.
Had that happen once, 2 live healthy kits and one cocoon, because it was to late in the pregnancy to reabsorb.
20 grams is not that much to an adult and I think Jamie could be right, just the change in living & treats.
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 08:35:54 AM »

 ::silly::  A few questions here, but first, let's do the figures ...

5/11/09 + 111 days = 8/30/09  This would be the due date IF she was in season the day the breeder put them "back together"    ... IF they actually had a successful breeding to produce one or more kits.  But, you said the birth date of the first litter was May 1st ...
Quote
Their B-Day is 5/1/09. 10 days later dad was put back in to be w/mom again. The breeder and I kept in touch, and when she decided to sell mom & dad I bought them.
 
IF the breeder kept them apart for the first ten days, then mom would not have gone in season again until very late in May.  Making her 1st due date: mid September, not mid August.

You say she lost the 20 grams about mid August ... to be only 2 weeks shy of the original birth date (if they did breed on 5/11/09, if she had a miscarriage, it would/should have been obvious ... IF her due date was Mid September, it would not have been as obvious, but I would think you would have seen something, if she had a miscarriage.  Unless it did die and remains inside to be absorbed ... if that is the possible case, I would watch her carefully, the original kit/kits may not be completely absorbed and could cause problems in delivery with this new litter, if she is pregnant now.  Mid August (if she had a miscarriage) ... she would have gone into season in the last two weeks of August.  (IF she did and is pregnant now ... the new due date for this litter would probably be very late November to early December (probably before the 10th).

 
Quote
I bought her (and her mate) in early August, and they previous owner said she had just started laying on her side.
This is one of the signs of pregnancy, but not always.  I have males that preferr to sleep/lay on their sides.  

I do not understand why the breeder would sell you a pregnant female.   ???   Moving a pregnant female from one place to another can stress them and can cause a miscarriage, IF she was pregnant.  Changing the diet when pregnant only adds to the stress.  

Do you know if this female has had any litters other than the ones you have the kits to and the possible one you think she may have miscarried?  If so, how many litters with healthy kits?
Has she been known to loose kits/miscarriage in other litters?   This is a very important question.
How old is momma and daddy?
What was the date you bought them?
What was the date she dropped 20 grams?
Did you find any signs of blood in the cage at the time she dropped the 20 grams?

Sorry about all the questions, but they are important.

 ::(:Down::  Jo Ann

ADDED: Looks like Debbie, Jamie and I are all on at the same time ... I was the slow poke!   rofl
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 08:40:13 AM by Jo Ann »
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 03:19:23 PM »

Sorry Guys....I don't know how to do the "quote" thing u guys do, so I had to copy and paste. My answers are in red.

A few questions here, but first, let's do the figures ...

5/11/09 + 111 days = 8/30/09  This would be the due date IF she was in season the day the breeder put them "back together"    ... IF they actually had a successful breeding to produce one or more kits.  But, you said the birth date of the first litter was May 1st ...The dad was kept out for 10days then put back in, so 5/1/09 was the day the litter was born, 5/11/09 was the day was put back in (my horrible math had it 1 day off)Quote
Their B-Day is 5/1/09. 10 days later dad was put back in to be w/mom again. The breeder and I kept in touch, and when she decided to sell mom & dad I bought them.
 
IF the breeder kept them apart for the first ten days, then mom would not have gone in season again until very late in May.  Making her 1st due date: mid September, not mid August. I thought this aswell, but kept the 8/29/09 (w/my bad math) due date as a VERY loose date.

You say she lost the 20 grams about mid August ... to be only 2 weeks shy of the original birth date (if they did breed on 5/11/09, if she had a miscarriage, it would/should have been obvious ... IF her due date was Mid September, it would not have been as obvious, but I would think you would have seen something, if she had a miscarriage.  Unless it did die and remains inside to be absorbed ... if that is the possible case, I would watch her carefully, the original kit/kits may not be completely absorbed and could cause problems in delivery with this new litter, if she is pregnant now.  Mid August (if she had a miscarriage) ... she would have gone into season in the last two weeks of August.  (IF she did and is pregnant now ... the new due date for this litter would probably be very late November to early December (probably before the 10th).

 
Quote
I bought her (and her mate) in early August, and they previous owner said she had just started laying on her side.
This is one of the signs of pregnancy, but not always.  I have males that preferr to sleep/lay on their sides. 

I do not understand why the breeder would sell you a pregnant female.      Moving a pregnant female from one place to another can stress them and can cause a miscarriage, IF she was pregnant.  Changing the diet when pregnant only adds to the stress.  When I say "breeder" she had 2 breeding pairs, she bought from breeders. She didn't have abunch, just the 2 pairs. I was also concerened about the above aswell. I only got the 1 pair, a friend got the other. She had surgery due to thyroid cancer, and was forced to rehome. I really wanted to get their cage and all, but she wanted to keep her setup for when/if she got back on her feet again.

Do you know if this female has had any litters other than the ones you have the kits to and the possible one you think she may have miscarried?  If so, how many litters with healthy kits? 3 litters-3rd one being the 2 I bought. All went well w/all 3 (1st-2kits, 2nd-1kit, 3rd-2kits)
Has she been known to loose kits/miscarriage in other litters? NOPE This is a very important question.
How old is momma and daddy? mom was born 8/06, and dad 6/6/07
What was the date you bought them? August 10th.
What was the date she dropped 20 grams?I weighed her everyday from the 10th. and on the 14th. of August she lost the weight
Did you find any signs of blood in the cage at the time she dropped the 20 grams?Nope I fine toothed combed thru it all, and nothing. I even checked her and she wasn't wet and/or didn't have any signs of discharge

Sorry about all the questions, but they are important.
That's ok...thanx abunch for the help
   Jo Ann
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2009, 09:07:39 AM »

 ::silly::  OK ... first, if you want to quote the complete statement, click on the word "Quote" in the top right portion of the post you want to quote.  It will automatically bring up your reply box with the quote already in it.
 IF you just want to post parts of it, click on reply, look above the area you type in ... right above the smiley that looks like this    >:(   you will see a button that has what looks like the thing they use in cartoons to say what the cartoon character is suppose to be saying ... click on that ... when you do you will see a [.quote ][/quote.] appear, copy and paste between the two ][  what you want to quote.

Now to the momma chin ... It's good to hear she has not lost any kits before ... if she had, I would have suggested you think about not breeding them again.  {If a momma looses one litter, I take her out of breeding for at least 6 months to a year, if she looses 2 litters, for no apparent reason, I take her out of breeding or give her one more try with a different mate.  Just my personal practice ... I don't like to stress them or over tax their system.}

Any time you have even one pair in breeding, you can be called a "breeder", but I think that is a very deceiving term.  I've had as many as 100 breeding pairs at one time, but still referr to myself as a 'hobby breeder', not a breeder in the terms I referr to with breeders that breed for a business.  If that were the case, I'd be a terrible business person ... I have yet to see anything but red on the bottom line.   rofl  

Now, I understand why you were so lucky to get a breeding pair.  Hopefully she will be able to get back to having chins again ... once you have one, it is so hard to not have them around ... they're very special in that kind of way.

Quote
How old is momma and daddy? mom was born 8/06, and dad 6/6/07
 This is good.   ::nod::
Quote
What was the date you bought them? August 10th. What was the date she dropped 20 grams?I weighed her everyday from the 10th. and on the 14th. of August she lost the weight
 Taking into consideration that she was moved to a new location and a new family, this could be the reason for the loss of weight.

Is her belly "tight"?  Do not palpitate her tummy, you could cause her to loose the kits ... but ... if she will sit still while you hold her, you can place your hand, palm up, on your lap, sit her on top of it with her tail near the tips of your fingers.  Give her something to eat that will take a while (like a raisin or even better mini wheat or cheerio) and talk softly to her the whole time.  If you feel the movement of the kit/kits, she should deliver in about two weeks.  As a general rule, the first time you feel one move it is about 2 weeks before they will be delivered ... but ... this is not carved in stone ... there are exceptions to every rule.   This can vary according to the number of kits and their size.  Since you have not been doing this, if you feel them the first time this time, the date should be less than two weeks.  If there is only one kit, it could be closer than two weeks ... if there is 3 to 5 kits, it could be longer.  Now that I have said that, make sure what you are feeling is a kit moving, not a gas bubble.   :blush2:

Momma chins tend to clean themselves allot when giving birth to her kits.  
Another sign will be an increase in the amount of food she eats.  One of the easiest signs to notice is a marked increase in water intake ... when this happens, she is usually within 24 to 48 hours of giving birth.

Then comes the calisthenics ... once in labor, they will usually flatten out on the bottom of the cage and you will see a difference in breathing.  She will do a series of stretchers and even pushes ... watch for the kits ... they are on their way!

 ::wave::  Jo Ann
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 09:11:54 AM by Jo Ann »
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2009, 09:52:02 PM »

Thanx....I think I got it....

Quote
Is her belly "tight"?
Yes, but no movement yet.
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2010, 11:55:36 PM »

I have babies....YEAH!!!.....2 came mid day 1 standard, 1 beige....both boys are healthy and super cute....Thanx guys
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2010, 06:31:06 AM »

Congrats on the babies!  I just love having babies!  They are so much fun and become a handful really quick.  I always become so atattched to them really quickly but have learned to not name them if I can't keep them, kinda helps.  Enjoy those critters, they are a blessing!

Steven
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chinclub

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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2010, 06:39:51 AM »

Wonderful!!!  Congratulations!!
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2010, 03:53:48 PM »

Awesome   ::clapp::

 ::birthday:: Babies

Some exciting eh!!!!! ::bouncyball::

Arn't they just the cutest!!!! ::kiss99::
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Re: Miscarriage?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 06:38:18 PM »

CUTE!!!!  Thanks for the pictures.
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