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[Ladykelia]

I've had Hermes for about 4 months now. He's my first chinchilla, but I have done my share of research on the little guys.. No plastic whatsoever in his cage, pellets and hay, limited treats including pieces of dried apricot, rosehips and apple wood, He gets outside play time probably 5-6 days a week and I give him his dust bath outside his cage twice a week since its so dry now.

He started acting a bit strangely about a week ago. I had changed some things in his cage around after I finally acquired my awesome Chillin' Chilla House from Simply Chintastic. I also added a shelf and a wooden tube. I figured he'd love the house but he actually started sleeping in the tube.. and then he pretty much wouldn't come out of it! Anyway, after a few days of him basically not coming out of his tube and occasionally skipping outside playtime, and being basically aloof, I got sufficiently worried and took him to the vet last Wednesday. But Hermes had been eating pretty normally and his droppings were well formed, so the vet said that he couldn't find anything wrong with him and just to keep an eye on him.
Since then, my in-laws (parents and grandma) came wednesday night to stay at our house, somewhat invading his territory. I hosted Thanksgiving on Thursday so there were 10 people over, but we were on a different level of the house so we mainly left him alone. On Friday we acquired a new chinchilla named Guacamole. We've kept them on different levels of the house, but they did meet very briefly through bars (as expected it didn't go too well, but it was very brief and no one was hurt. We won't move them together until Hermes is well again.

Two days ago, Hermes started eating much much less and he still has barely touched his hay. He still has droppings but they are very small and scarce, though they are about the same form and moisture. I called the vet today and he suggested that I force feed him liquid oxbow critical care diet with a syringe, and that if he doesn't start eating on his own really soon, I should take him in for x-rays.

I just don't really get it though.. could it just be stress and the disruption to his routine? (my in-laws just left today). Maybe jealousy over the other chinchilla? I'm just confused because he started acting weird a bit before all that.. although the possible stress probably didn't help. Hermes will eat a pellet or two if I give it to him, but then acts disinterested. He hasn't really drank much and will barely touch his hay. He *will* however gobble down a rosehip and apricot no problem. I haven't given him too many, but maybe a few more than usual because I figure that him eating *something* is better than nothing... also because its the only way to lure him out of his cage so we can grab him for the force feedings. though.... most of the food ended up on his face more than in his mouth, just like a little baby! Also, for a little guy who is acting sick, he sure is strong and able to fight the force feeding. Also, We let him out today and he was zipping all over and climbing into bookshelves and generally getting into mischief.  

I'll follow the doctors recommendations and continue the force feedings for a day or two, unpleasant as they are. If nothing changes we'll consider getting the x-rays. I sure wish I had bought that pet insurance now!

Any ideas what could be wrong?

[Ladykelia]

Update:

Well, my mind is boggled. After a couple of stressful (albeit adorable.. hes just like a little baby with half the food ending up on his face, and his little paws trying to push the syringe away) force feedings, Hermes started half cooperating and seemed to be enjoying the Critical Care. So just now I thought it would be worth a try to put a small dish of it in his cage. It worked! He started devouring it almost instantly. He didn't eat all of it, but he ate enough that I am satisfied that he is probably full for now since its sleepy time, and since his last feeding wasn't long ago.  

He didn't touch his pellets last night or so far today, and it doesn't look like he had much water if any. I tested the bottle and it works. It did look like he dug through his hay box, but not like he had eaten any.

If he doesn't drink anything this evening, i am going to mix in some cranberry juice with his water.. I think I saw that suggestion somewhere on here!

So what does it mean if your chinchilla will eat soft food and hard rosehips, but not any of his normal pellets or grass or water? He is still lively and strong as well, and last i checked he was still leaving droppings, though they were small. Crazy little guy.

[Jo Ann]

   If he is eating willingly, don't force feed him ... it will cause him to run from you.

So what does it mean if your chinchilla will eat soft food and hard rosehips, but not any of his normal pellets or grass or water? He is still lively and strong as well, and last i checked he was still leaving droppings, though they were small. Crazy little guy.

Rosehips are not hard ... especially if they have been dried ... they can easily be crushed between your fingers.

What brand pellets are you using?

What kind of "grass" are you using?

Smaller or fewer droppings is not a good sign ... it is usually one of the first "trouble is brewing" signs you will get that your chin is or is getting sick.

You say they {poops/feces} are getting smaller ... are they dryer also?  are they fewer in number?

Has he lost any weight?

Is his the outline of his back bone beginning to show?

   Jo Ann

[Ladykelia]

 If he is eating willingly, don't force feed him ... it will cause him to run from you.

The problem is that he is not willingly eating nearly enough (at first not at all). I was hopeful with the critical care in his cage because he ate some, but then he never touched it again. I have put only a small amount of food in his cage (an amount that in the past he could have easily eaten in a single night) so I can determine whether it's been eaten or not - but it hasn't been touched. Last night and this morning he *did* eat a tiny bit of hay on his own and I was hopeful.. but only a few blades are gone.

The force feedings were at the recommendation of my vet because Hermes had barely eaten anything for almost two days. We are supposed to feed him every 4 hours or so, but with work and sleeping there are plenty of chances for Hermes to get hungry and go eat on his own. By the way, our vet does claim to have a lot of experience with exotics, and some with chinchillas. So far he seems pretty competent.

Hermes certainly doesn't like the force feedings, and I was worried that I am causing him undue stress and mistrust, but he still greets me in the morning and lets me tickle him, so I'm hoping that he knows we only do it because we love him.

What brand pellets are you using?

Oxbow chinchilla deluxe, which is the brand he has always eaten

What kind of "grass" are you using?

Oxbow western timothy hay. I also tried offering Petco brand timothy hay. We've switched brands a few times since we've had him and it has never made a difference. He likes it all.

Smaller or fewer droppings is not a good sign ... it is usually one of the first "trouble is brewing" signs you will get that your chin is or is getting sick.

You say they {poops/feces} are getting smaller ... are they dryer also?  are they fewer in number?

They were smaller and fewer and drier because he wasn't eating. Yesterday we had several successful force feedings, and his droppings looked *really* good. They looked like they belonged to a healthy Hermes and I was very encouraged.. That's why I'm baffled. He's not constipated. He seems to be perfectly healthy other than the fact that he won't eat or drink.   Its day 4 of him not eating willingly, and he's still quite strong.  

Has he lost any weight?

That I'm not sure. If he has, I haven't noticed. He was weighed in on Wednesday at the vet's at 1 lbs 4 oz I believe.. don't quote me on that.

Is his the outline of his back bone beginning to show?

Nope, he's still pretty plump.

Any ideas? I mean, it could be stress from the Thanksgiving stuff and the new chinchilla, but thats all I can come up with and I would think hed be over it by now. But, as I said, he was just a tiny bit lethargic before all of those events. It's hard to see the world from the tiny guy's point of view, but i can't think of any other stress factors. No kids and no other pets besides Guacamole. We try to give him as much attention as possible, but its always gentle  and if he is hiding in his house/tunnel, we try to leave him alone.

I wish he could just tell me what's wrong   

[Jo Ann]

   It sounds like you are doing all the right things.  

The stress of visitors during the holidays might be a 'no-no' from now on (or at least not in the chins room).  Chins can stress over the least of things at times.  
Some chins don't mind being moved from one part of the house to another, while other chins will get totally upset when their cages are moved to a different place in the same room.
Some chins will stress if their cage is lowered to a different level, even if in the same part of the room.  Chinchillas in the wild always had to watch out for birds of prey ... they still carry this instinct with them today.  If any one 'towered' over him or his cage, this could have upset/frightened him.  
A t.v. or radio with the volume louder than normal will sometimes upset them.  A child running and squealing in even in delight, can frighten a chin.
The banging of pots and pans ... all these are noises a chins is not familiar with and will frighten them.

Hermes certainly doesn't like the force feedings, and I was worried that I am causing him undue stress and mistrust, but he still greets me in the morning and lets me tickle him, so I'm hoping that he knows we only do it because we love him.

 We give our children vaccinations to keep them safe, because we love them ... but ... it still does not make them happy.  But, I'm sure he knows you are doing what is good for him or he would have taken a big bite and not turned loose.    
You might want to try goat's milk (room temperature, do not heat in microwave and store left overs in air tight container in the frig) ... it has lots of nutrition for them and will help keep fluids in him.  When giving fluids to a chin, place a drop on his lips and let him take it from there.  Check this page out ...    http://luvnchins.com/ChinsIISignsTrouble.html   ... it is referring to a new kit and how to feed them, but it might also help you with feeding your little one.  Give the page plenty of time to load ... there are several videos on it ... if you miss one, just click on the arrow to replay it.

  For weighing, I always suggest a scale that weighs in grams, not ounces/pounds.  These can be found on the net and in some stores that have office supplies.  They will refer to the as scales used to weigh mail.  (Postal Scales.)  The loss of one ounce on a chinchilla is a huge amount of weight.  4 pounds 1 ounce = about 482 grams  One ounce weighs about 28.35 grams.  When talking about chinchillas, their weight is usually listed in grahams.  The loss of 10 to 15 grams will often raise a red flag ... that is only 1/3 to 1/2 ounce, which will not even register on regular scales.  Google "postal scales" and it will let you check out several different places and prices ... always check local stores ... and ... remember to consider shippig and handling prices as well as the price of the item.

   Jo Ann

[Ladykelia]

Update:

He's still not eating too much on his own, but I did catch him lapping up diluted cranberry juice (a fairly satisfactory amount), eating some hay (not nearly enough, but some), and even a few pellets. I haven;t seen him out of his house much today, and we just cleaned his cage so I'm not sure what the status of his droppings are, but they did look pretty decent yesterday. So anyway, I'm encouraged, but theres still definitely something wrong. We were going to take him to the vet today to get some X-rays but unfortunately their X-ray machine was down, hopefully we can get him in tomorrow. Since it seems he is eating a bit on his own, we have cut back on the feeding schedule, now only giving him a dose or two per day. I hope thats okay to do, I was just worried that the reason he wasn't eating was because he was full from us feeding him. We just gave him some and after only a little bit of protest, he ate it hungrily, so it seems he might have an appetite. I will have the vet take a closer look at his teeth tomorrow too, but he did eat a piece of dried apricot which are fairly tough. He still has a lot of energy in him, and he seemed completely healthy when we let him out for playtime. In his cage though, he has been spending a lot of time staying in his house.

Jo Ann-
For the last week or so, things have been pretty normal as far our routines go, and his (besides the force feedings). He *might* still be trying to get on track from when my in-laws were here, but I'm not sure. I'm thinking that if there turns out to be nothing physically wrong that his attitude might have a lot to do with the new chinchilla on the block, despite the reality that Hermes has probably soaked up more of our attention than we have given to poor Guacamole. He doesn't know that though, as they can not see each other's cages. If that is the case, I'm not sure if its better to leave them where they are until Hermes is completely healthy (Guacamole is upstairs, Hermes is downstairs), or to have them in the same room so that we can give both of them more attention together and so they don't have to wonder how much of our devotion the other one is getting. We've been hesitant to let them be near each other, but it would be great if they were in the same room because we naturally spend more time downstairs. What's your opinion on this? We don't have any experience with introductions, but when its time we are planning to try the cage by cage methodology. Of course, I will definitely wait for the results of the X-rays, and maybe Hermes will buck up in the next couple of days... heres hoping!

Thanks for the tips on the force feeding! Since he's been doing pretty well being force fed with water (and yes, theres no way we can force the syringe too far in his mouth when he's in a non-cooperative mood, so with both food and water its a matter of getting it near the vicinity of his mouth haha) and has been drinking more juice on his own, we haven't given a try to the goat's milk, but i will keep that in mind if things start to go downhill again. Where does one buy goat's milk anyway?

Do you or anyone else have any other advice as to how to encourage him to eat more food on his own?

[Ladykelia]

Major update -

My husband took Hermes to the vet this morning. It turns out the reason Hermes has been acting so funny is that he has a large kidney stone and although he seems to have an appetite, it must be a bit painful for him to eat. The only option is surgery to remove the stone, which my vet has performed successfully on a rabbit before, but i guess this particular problem has never come up for a chinchilla in his experience. Poor little guy The doctor is going to consult with another exotics expert on Monday to confirm his diagnoses and then we should be able to get him in for the surgery next week. After the stone is removed they will send it to a lab to be analyzed for cause.

[Jo Ann]

   Goat's milk comes in cans like evaporated milk and is ususally found in the same area in larger stores.  Some stores carry it in the baby section also, next to the baby formula.  Human babies that are allergic to cow's milk are often given goat's milk.  It is much more expensive, but, in my opinion, worth every drop.  Shake well before opening.  Once opened, store in an airtight glass container in the refrigerator, or in a plastic container in the freezer.  Give it to the chins at room temperature.  For many years, I used puppy or kitten formula, but at one of the shows ... Barbara Shoots was feeding new kits goat's milk ... I've used that ever since.  The Shoots have raised chinchillas as a family business since the 1970s.  Ralph Shoots is a highly respected breeder and judge of chinchilla shows with both M.C.B.A and Empress associations.  Any thing they have to say about raising chinchillas, I will not question.  

Keep us posted on the progress!

Major update -

My husband took Hermes to the vet this morning. It turns out the reason Hermes has been acting so funny is that he has a large kidney stone and although he seems to have an appetite, it must be a bit painful for him to eat. The only option is surgery to remove the stone, which my vet has performed successfully on a rabbit before, but i guess this particular problem has never come up for a chinchilla in his experience. Poor little guy The doctor is going to consult with another exotics expert on Monday to confirm his diagnoses and then we should be able to get him in for the surgery next week. After the stone is removed they will send it to a lab to be analyzed for cause.

Lani Richey at California Chins ( www.cachins.org ) has helped many vets.  She, along with others are researchers for/with chinchillas.  Your vet might want to check with them ... she has done many consults via the phone over the years.

I am sure the kidney stone has been very painful for him.  Surgery for a chinchilla can be very touchy.  One of the main things to be careful about is the type and amount of anaesthetic that they use to put them to sleep with and the length of time for the surgery itself.


   Jo Ann

[Ladykelia]

Update:

Hermes had his surgery today. It went very well and he came home almost right away, he was only at the vet for a couple of hours. He is somewhat active. My husband was mistaken when he told me that Hermes had a kidney stone, it was actually a bladder stone. What they took out of him was what my hubby describes as the size of an "almond M&M." Poor guy! We are still uncertain about what may have caused the stone and if its been in the development for a long time or only since we've had him. They sent it off to a lab to be analyzed but won't have the results for another month. We feed him Oxbow deluxe pellets, Oxbow or Petco timothy hay, and for occasional treats we give him rosehips, dried apricots, apple sticks, and thats about it. His previous owners did give him onion peels as treats and may have given him way more apricots than we do.

[Ladykelia]

I'm in shock. Hermes was doing so well last night, maybe a bit lethargic but still somewhat active and friendly despite his surgery. We hand fed him and he ate hungrily, we gave him his antibiotics which he hated but we eventually got in him. The surgery had gone well, I thought the worst was over.

This morning my husband went to check on him... His stitches had pulled out in the middle of the night. I will spare the details. He was laying by the door of his cage, waiting for us to come help him, still breathing, trying to get up. We called the emergency number for the vet, who told us to rush him in. I couldn't bare it so I stayed home while my husband brought him to the vet, but there was nothing they could do but put him to rest.

I'm so upset, I never thought this would happen, and I had let my guard down.

If there are stairs in heaven, I hope he is running up and down them as fast as he can go. 

[Jo Ann]

     I am so sorry to hear Hermes didn't make it, he was a little fighter to make it as far as he did.  It is so hard when you loose a little one, especially when you think it is on the road to recovery.   

Hermes has crossed the Rainbow Bridge and is now playing with those who have gone before.  He will never know pain or illness again ... only the freedom that all chinchillas love.

Sometimes, we don't know the why, but there always is at least one reason, even if we do not know it.  No little one leaves us for no reason ... sometimes it is so others may learn what to watch for, what to do, or what not to do, so that others may not have the same fate.   Please be sure to post the reports the Vet has, it may give others an incite to what they need to avoid.

   Jo Ann