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[TheFreedomAngel]

happy new year!

i have a question about my chinchilla... i have had 2 male chins for 3 years and they live together in a big cage with one big rectangular hut where they usually sleep together. they grew up together and get along very well. recently (starting last sunday) my beige chin would stay outside of the hut, while the standard chin would stay inside the hut and not come out. whenever the beige chin tries to go in the standard chin would make this noise signaling its annoyed and attempt to push away the beige chin. sometimes the beige chin would force the the standard chin to get out, but then they end up chasing each other violently around the cage (which usually happens once per day or two, but this time whenever they see each other). the standard chin seems to be afraid to even come out to eat or drink water. so i took the standard chin out to take a look, i was wearing a t-shirt and when i hold him to my arms, his worn-out fur was all over my t-shirt. normally he doesnt lose that much fur, but this time its alot.

i checked his belly and bottoms, and the fur in that area is particularly wet, and i see this unusual bloating near his male organ, which ive never seen before. i am not sure why... but does chin look like that only when theyre pregnant...? it cant be right... im pretty sure he is a male, or at least i can tell from his organ. so i immediately isolated him into the upper level of the big cage (i have 2 levels, you know the very big cages for ferrets), gave him water and food. when hes alone in the top level he seems really happy, started eating, drinking, etc. right now they are isolated and things are peaceful, and theyre just sleeping now.

have you guys ever seen this before?

any advice would be very helpful, thanks in advance!

[cusunfireguy]

I'm no expert but it almost sounds like the dominant Chinchilla may have been challenged for dominance?  I had 2 females do this and had to separate them.  Mind you, my dominant female had just had kits when she went on the war path.  There isn't a female around is there?  It's weird sometimes but it could just be a case of dominance battle.  If it got really bad, they usually go for each others ears which is really ugly.  JoAnn should read this and give you some advice, she is awesome and very wise in Chinchilla affairs.  Good luck to you!

Steven

[chinclub]

Im thinking your male might have a fur fing (Where hair gets wrapped tightly around the penis).  This causes lots of pain, the inability to urinate correctly, urine leakage, swelling, ect. It is also very serious and can lead to death if left too long.

You need to get someone else to help you and you need to have on hand either a very small pair of scissors or nail clippers.  Then getting a firm hold on your chinchilla you need to push back the sheath of skin around the penis, gently grab the tip and pull it slowly all the way out.  You will know you are all the way out when you can see where it connects to the body.  Look closely for any hair that might be wrapped around it and VERY CAREFULLY cut it away.  Don't cut your chinchilla.

Once you have done this write back and let me know if you found any hair. Also, let me know if any part of the penis was sticking out of the sheath when you first turned him over.  And if the penis itself looked swollen in places and/or purple.  As these might mean the problem wasn't caught right away and he might need some antibiotics also.

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Yes check that and let us know!

[TheFreedomAngel]

thanks guys - no there are females here, i triple checked and my standard is definitely a guy. i checked his penis but theres nothing entangling it, he seems to be very happy alone on the top cage, no eating problems, just like usual. they used to be very good with each other, they would sleep on each other like a fur ball. but now they seem to chase each other around violently... i might put them back together in the same cage again and see how they react now, maybe its just a temporary issue. will keep you guys posted, thanks!

[TheFreedomAngel]

i tried to put them together again... but it got worse, when i put the beige next to my standard, the beige immediately starts humping him, and now the standard became very scared... i have to separate them again, but even if hes staying by himself, hes becoming less active, eating less and drinking less

[cusunfireguy]

Sounds like a dominance battle to me.  They may resolve it and they may not.  Funny like that sometimes.  Hope it gets better.  Have you tried letting them out together at play time?  Could try to scrub the cage really well to get all the scents out.  Hopefully one of the moderators will be able to give you more solid advice.  Has there been any ear damage?

Steven

[Jo Ann]

   There are several different "issues/problems" here that need attention, so I am splitting up the quotes, with the possibilities you might want to consider.

... i have had 2 male chins for 3 years and they live together in a big cage with one big rectangular hut where they usually sleep together. they grew up together and get along very well. recently (starting last sunday) my beige chin would stay outside of the hut, while the standard chin would stay inside the hut and not come out.

This could be happening for several different reasons - a struggle for dominance, OR you may have a male and a female instead of two males {turn them over and compare},please.   If they are different, you have one of each and the female may be, or may soon to be, pregnant  you will need to get/make a chin-kit-safe-cage a.s.a.p.  If one of the chins is a female.   If they are of opposite sex, but born to the same parents ... incest is not good ... I would separate them.

... unusual bloating near his male organ, which ive never seen before. i am not sure why... but does chin look like that only when theyre pregnant...?  it cant be right... im pretty sure he is a male, or at least i can tell from his organ.

 "Pretty sure" is not a positive ... I would want to be positive about both of them being males, over not being positive, and finding dead kits in the floor because the wire is to large to be safe for little kits.

Male chins, like most males in the animal kingdom, do not get pregnant ... that is a task, that is to hard for them, or/and we would have -0- population growth, so God assigned that task to the female of the species.      
Sorry, guys, that one was just to tempting and easy to leave it out.    

so i immediately isolated him into the upper level of the big cage (i have 2 levels

Transferring one to the upper level of the cage is not truly separating them.  The one above can pee and poop on the one below ... AND ... the one below can bite toes, feet and the tail of the one above it ... Contuning to keep it stressed out.

... whenever the beige chin tries to go in the standard chin would make this noise signaling its annoyed and attempt to push away the beige chin.

 
Chins often need their personal space, just like humans.  
OR, there may not be enough room for both chins inside the hut - one could be over heating the other.  
OR, there could be a dominance issue, which can become quite dangerous, should they get into a serious fight.  A serious fight includes, but is not limited to, blood and broken skin from bites.  {sometimes even the death of one or both}
OR  they are not both males,  but are actually one female and one male and the female is going into, or coming out of, season and is in no mood to accept the male's advances.  

sometimes the beige chin would force the the standard chin to get out, but then they end up chasing each other violently around the cage (which usually happens once per day or two, but this time whenever they see each other).

This could be just playing OR it could be a warning of what is to come, but often can be much worse.  I would check both at least once a day ... any signs of blood, I would separate them and never let them back in the same cage again ... my personal opinion (not always shared by others).

..the standard chin seems to be afraid to even come out to eat or drink water.

 
This is never good ... one can, and have been known to, starve the other to death ... I would definitely separate them into separate cages, if they were mine.

 

... so i took the standard chin out to take a look, i was wearing a t-shirt and when i hold him to my arms, his worn-out fur was all over my t-shirt. normally he doesnt lose that much fur, but this time its alot.

A loss of that much fur could have several problems:  stress, over-heating, diet or health issues.  Chinchillas are known for their ability to "shed/slip" their fur in an emergency situation or when frightened.  Can you take a picture an post it or could you just send me a picture if.   (Prey are often left with nothing but a mouth full of fur.)    

i checked his belly and bottoms, and the fur in that area is particularly wet, and i see this unusual bloating near his male organ, which ive never seen before. i am not sure why...

First, I would make sure he is a he and not a she.

but does chin look like that only when theyre pregnant...? it cant be right... im pretty sure he is a male, or at least i can tell from his organ.

Male chinchillas do not get pregnate.

...so i immediately isolated him into the upper level of the big cage (i have 2 levels, you know the very big cages for ferrets), gave him water and food. when hes alone in the top level he seems really happy, started eating, drinking, etc. right now they are isolated and things are peaceful, and theyre just sleeping now.

In a two level cage, the chins are only 1 wire apart ... one that can be easily passed through ... toes and tails will be bitten by the chin in the cage below, and will keep the shy one in constant fear.  This is not a true isolation or separation, and would leave the one in the top in fear, and the one on the bottom in constant need of a bath.

i tried to put them together again... but it got worse, when i put the beige next to my standard, the beige immediately starts humping him, and now the standard became very scared... i have to separate them again, but even if hes staying by himself, hes becoming less active, eating less and drinking less

Fear of being returned to the same cage/stressful situation with his former cage mate may still be having a stressful effect on him.   At this point, from what you are saying, he is constantly in fear of this because you keep trying put them back together, not to mention they are only a wire apart ... a wire barrier that is easily passed through.  I would not do this, not even during playtime.  I would give him lots of TLC and extra attention.  Chins do not tend to get over things  (emotionally and physically) as quickly as most animals do.  There may have already been to much stress.  What do his poops look like?  soft & moist, but not sticky wet? or smaller and dryer than normal?  Number of poops as compaired to the other chin's amount?  more or less?

Personally, I think it would be well worth the price of a second cage, to avoid future possible injuries to the second chinchilla.   Vet visits are not cheap.

   Jo Ann

[Debbie.nl.ca]

It's sounding more like a male & female to me too .
I don't see a male getting wet on his underside.
Can you take pictures??

I'm not saying your wrong, but I do remember mixing them up myself. Sexing is so much easier when you have both sexes.
My first few litters were a laugh that's for sure.

[TheFreedomAngel]

thanks guys for the detailed comments, so far my standard chin (peng peng) is back to normal in his own cage/space above the beige one (fei fei). peng peng doesnt lose fur or get scared to come out to eat/drink anymore, i think hes back to normal. the upper and low portion of my cage is separated by reinforced plastic that i custom made, basically peng peng cannot urinate or drop stuff down to fei fei. i think it may be a dominance battle, and im gonna try to have them come out and play together like they used to, and see what happens. in the meantime i will take some pictures of their bottoms, im pretty sure both of them have penis but ill make sure again. if things dont work out it seems like theyre destined to live separately i will miss the furry ball they look like whenever they curl together...

[olivia41]

it also sounds like a male and a female to me. just remember that females also have something that looks like a penis, but its actually a urethal cone. that may be where your mistake is. if the male is older than five or six months, you should also see his balls. females you will be able to see a tiny hole between the cone and her butt. 

[Jo Ann]

   Most adult males are obvious, if you know what you are looking at, but it can be confusing to the inexperienced. 

If you take a male and and a female chin, turn them over, side by side, even at 2 months old, being compaired to each other, may look alike to the inexperienced chinchilla owner ... while other leave little to question.   

The cone of the female will be actually touching the anus.

The there will be a space (sometimes however small) between the penis and the anus of the male.

Hint: rather than just turning them over ... place them on an eye level table or shelf, in good lighting ... raise the tail until the hind feet are off the surface (this will not harm your chin in any way) ... this should make the separation between the front and back more obvious ... or make it obvious their is no separation between the two.

Some males, as kits, are small and appear to be female ... (I had a set of quad female kits, that took between the ages of 2 weeks to almost 6 weeks of age to let me see they were actually a set of quad male kits instead).       Large litters and/or underweight/small kits can be confusing at times.

Check the pictures below ... they may help.  I'll try to find one of a male and add it.

I had one lady email me with a statement and a question ...one of her newly acquired male chins gave birth to a kit during the night ... how could she tell which of the males was the birth parent?    
I explained how to tell them apart ... she emailed back that I didn't know what I was talking about because they must both be males, because they looked exactly alike down there ... no difference in the two ... 
So, I sent her pictures of a male and a female ... as it turned out ... the pet shop had sold her two chinchillas of the same sex ... but, the same sexed chins were not males, but two females instead ... one had apparently gotten pregnant from an actual male chinchilla that was with them in the store, in the same cage, 3 months earlier and had since been sold to another patron.   

The chinchilla world is an interesting and fun place to be.   

   Jo Ann

[Debbie.nl.ca]

I will be the first to admit, I got it wrong several time, sexing. 

To the novice and untrained eye both appear to have a penis. The males will get much larger as he ages, but when they are kits it can be hard.
It's kind of one of those things that when I figured it out I could see it every time, but until I had one of each side by side, I goofed.