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[Jhenderson27]

So clicking around craigslist I came across a posting for a mated 2 year old pair of Chins that needed a re-homing.  I called and spoke with the lady and come to find out shes quite close to where I live.  I got the history of the chins from her.  They have been together since they were young.  They are from unrelated parents from a breeder in Michigan.  They have since moved to my area where they just couldn't take care of the chins as they felt they needed.  Another twist to the story is that they needed to be re-homed ASAP as the girl is due on the 17th of next month.  This will be the pairs 2nd litter of kits.  The first litter was 2 healthy babies, one I was told was sold to a family after 11 weeks and unfortunately the other baby got out and was killed by cat.  Very tragic and sad.  (Broke my heart to hear it).  However we felt the need to take these two in to our house and give them a forever happy home.  If some of you very experienced breeders could PM me or leave some advice here for us to get our lovable ( and they are extremely) pair ready for their second litter that would be so very helpful.  I know this was a big undertaking for my girlfriend and I but we just couldn't stand by and let them go to a shelter or somewhere worse.  We have named the boy Titan and the girl Cascata, Cas for short(Portuguese for waterfall).   Tomorrow as soon as I get home from work I will be starting our new friends on calf manna to boost them up a little and they are already on Mazuri Diet and Oxbow hay.  We have our birthing cage (24x24x18)(1x1/2 bar spacing) ready to go.  We have done the math and expect the babies here on July 17th.  How soon should we pull her and get her into the small cage and away from her partner to prevent a breed back.  I know this is a lot but I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row.

Cas is a standard gray with some very dark black markings and black paws.  Titan is a White Mosaic with some very pretty patterns on him.

We did a weigh in tonight and Cas is a solid 890g and Titan is a healthy 690g.  The lady was not keeping track of it before this so I will be very on this for the next few weeks till our due date.  I did a very ginger touch of her stomach as we were transporting her to our house and she defiantly has something in there.  Shes eating great and drinking good already.  Shes happy and very sleepy too.  Shes doing a lot of laying on her side. 

Any info/help/advice is greatly appreciated.  Ive been through hamsters and dogs and cats breeding before but never a Chin.  This I guess you could say requires a crash course but hey, nothings easy in life. 

THANKS THANKS and more THANKS!

I will get pics up tomorrow.

Venessa and Justin

[chinclub]

Congratulations on your new pair!!

Ok, two things right off the bat...no calf manna until after the babies are born.  Calf Manna is great from nursing moms and growing kits, but it has been found to cause increased size of the fetus  to the point that they can't fit out at birth.  Many moms and babies have died in delivery due to calf manna.

Secondly, this mom is very far along and has gone through a move to a new house.  Its best if you don't handle her right now.  Too much stress late in pregnancy can cause a miscarriage or premature labor.

When to wean in a pair breeding is always hard.  You want her to birth in a safe cage, but if they are bonded and snuggle a lot you don't want to stress her out by taking away her partner too soon.  Ideally I would go ahead and place them both in the birthing cage and let them be getting settled in together.  Then remove dad when the babies come.  Most fathers are a big help during delivery keeping baby one warm while mom delivers baby two.  As long as you remove him within a few hours all should be fine.  If you notice him trying to mount her and getting on her nerves you might have to remove him before the birth.

Once you remove Dad push his cage right up against Mom's cage.  He will want to be able to see, smell, and touch noses with his babies and with Mom.  You can slowly introduce Calf Manna at this point.  Remember it is a new food so only a few pieces a day to get them used to it.

No dust bath for Mom or babies for 10 days after delivery.  Then they can take their first bath together.

[Jhenderson27]

Thanks so much for the advice.  The girl seems to live for attention.  I feel bad not giving her what she wants.  She comes to the edge of the cage to be scratched and held.  I am glad you touched on no handling of her as I would have.  any advice is appreciated

[chinclub]

Well, if she loves attention and comes out to you that is fine.  I wasn't sure how much handling she had before and I didn't want you having to catch her to weigh her as that would be stressful.

[Jhenderson27]

Both she and he come from a house with 10 kids.  Yes I said 10.  They were very friendly and such to the chins and she is very lovable giving chin nose kisses alot.  He on the other hand is a little skittish so were giving him his space. 

Few things.  I use care-fresh bedding now is there something better i should use for when the 2 go into the breeder cage?

Do i need any additional supplies for the kits.

You'd say a week before the due date is about right to move them to the small cage.

How much time can dad have with the kits before moving him back with mom and babies after 10 days.  I'm talking per day before the 10 day mark.  I will have a cage as close as possible.  I see 3in is the general distance to prevent cage to cage breeding. 

Do I need to be present when shes giving birth.  IE: over night, at work, etc...

Do i clean the babies or do i let her take care of it.

Is there a way to guess how many kits are coming.  ( she had 2 the first time)

That's about all i got right now.

Justin

P.S.- When they are born how soon can we start to love on them. 

[jbcstratton]

You shouldn't need anything for the kits unless there a alot (3 or more) then maybe a dropper and goats milk but I have heard of up to six that the mom took care of by herself.  You shouldn't need to be present when she has her kits usually mom can take care or everything herself.  She should clean the babies but it doesn't hurt to get them out and help.  Also you can hold them anytime but just for a few minutes at first.  You want them to get nursing right away.  After a few days they can be held for longer periods.  Also if there seems to be a runt you can remove the bossier one and give the smaller one time to mom by itself.  Weight is the best way to know but usually they have 1-2.  You may want to get a good scale that measures in grams to make sure babies are gaining weight.

[Jhenderson27]

I have a very high quality postal scale.  We have been doing in dust house weighing.  Everyone seems to be happy doing that.  Hopefully we can go through this and have a couple happy healthy kids. 

[chinclub]

How much time can dad have with the kits before moving him back with mom and babies after 10 days.  I'm talking per day before the 10 day mark.

I said mom and babies can have a dust bath after 10 days.  Dad need to be kept in another cage for at least 6 weeks.

[Jhenderson27]

Wow 6 weeks really.  Well thanks.  Can I have chew toys like lava bites in the cage with the babies for her to chew.  I just want her to be happy with whatever she needs.  Or is the least amount the better.  You all have been a tremendous help.  We would not have been ready for this at all with out the chinclub!

[chinclub]

I say six weeks because that is about how long she will nurse.  You don't want her pregnant and having to produce milk at the same time.  Many sites say that females can't get pregnant while they are nursing but it can happen.   I usually wait until 7 weeks.  I wean the kits and then add Dad back.  Toys are fine in the cage. 

[Jhenderson27]

Thanks

[Jhenderson27]

As of today since the 22nd of June our girl has gained a solid 28g and is up to 918g.  I have been keeping tabs on her and she is happy loving and friendly.  She loves to kiss noses and get scratched and such.  Shes eating a good amount, her poo is good, drinking plenty and overall enjoying her time. 

When should I move her into the whelping cage.  Maybe a week before the due date.  I know you said take him too but is that good for a cage that small.  Please keep me apprised.  Thanks much guys.

Justin

[Debbie.nl.ca]

As this is not her first litter, she should do just fine all by herself.
Way cool if you get to watch though.
I have always put dad back between 5 & 10 days. Mom let me know if it's too soon. I just hold dad up to her and see if she wants him yet.
That said I did have an accident last year where dad accidentally jumped on a kit.
This being your first litter & you being a new chin owner you may want to wait as Jamie has said.
You can still let mom & dad play together after the first week, or 10 days,and give dad time with the baby asap.
Some of my dads are better, or should I say more affectionate than some of the moms.