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[ABC Chinchillas]

How did the vet drin the gas with a needle? that would cause an intestinal perferation. I have never heard of that being done.

[jmdebb]

so how is he doing?

[dianah]

ok. i have a rescue chin that nearly died of stasis just before christmas - she made it.

if there's a lot of gas i'm guessing there's not a lot of gut movement - is that right? did she get any injections? it's an extremely painful condition and he should be on some form of pain relief (normally metacam, but mae did get a more powerful painkiller at one point). also, there are medications that stimulate gut movement. lactulose helps a lot too. was the emergency vet a chin experienced vet? if not, get her seen by someone you know is good with chins.

1/he needs to eat. the best way of getting the gut to move is with food. can you get some fine grind critical care and syringe feed him? make sure there are no air bubbles in the syringe. i fed mae every two hours day and night. if you make it quite watery, you'll be getting water into him as well. i find using 2.5ml syringes are best. if you get 6 or 7 and get them filled, you can just keep going. rather than stop and start. 
2/give his tummy hot compresses. stick some rice into a sock, tie it, put it in the microwave for 2 minutes or so, make sure it's not too hot and hold him while holding the sock to his tummy. as long as you can, if you can get him to stay for 15 minutes, awesome.
3/massage his tummy whether he likes it or not. mae wasn't keen either but i do believe this saved her life. see if you can massage some poo out of him. if you manually get the gut moving, at least it's moving, even if not by itself.
4/let him move around - walk around the room etc - if he wants to but don't let him jump as the build up of gas can cause him to tear insides. i left dust bath in mae's cage so she could go and have a bit of exercise - she didn't. she conveniently peed in it though which was great for monitoring how much she's peeing.

mae got 15 injections in one week. all four vets who saw her thought she was going to die (they didn't tell me until after). it took about two weeks to get better.

did you change his food at all after you got him from the rescue?

[dianah]

How did the vet drin the gas with a needle? that would cause an intestinal perferation. I have never heard of that being done.

i've never heard of that done either. i've read that they do it in other animals but as you say, in chinchillas it can cause intestinal perforation.

[christa]

Sorry,  for some reason my email was not letting me know there were responses, so I thought there were none.    The vet at Alliance Veterinary hospital was the one who shaved the belly and used the needle.  I was in the waiting room,  so I was not aware of how it was done, but on the bill it says "Abdomenoparacentesis with centesi" and I was charged $150.00 for that alone...... But here is an update:  Rodney (my Chin) was not doing any better when I got him home.  Continued to be bloated,  and I tried Simethicone drops,  was giving the vet -prescribed Baytril ,  the vet-prescribed cat Lax,  etc. -was told to leave him with hay and water----let him run,  rubbed his belly--- But he did NO eating and NO elimination--- So I called them back,  and they recommended an Exotics vet hospital near here,  which is where Rodney is right now (took him this morning, and vet says he will be there until Sunday).  X-rays show gas build up.  No signs of malocclusion, just lower teeth overgrown, needed filing. Giving analgesics,  and doing blood work.  They are also giving IV fluids, and syringe-feeding critical care.....He is so cute, I just want him to be a happy Chin --thanks for responses, all

[christa]

PS: I was doing the tummy massage,  letting him hop around,  I tried everything----- As I said,  the needle procedure  is  listed on the hospital bill as "Abdomenoparacentesis with centesi"--and his little belly was shaved.  
I REALLY hope the overgrown lower teeth is NOT a sign of malocclusion:  This is an Exotics surgeon and he says no signs of it, so I hope I can trust him.  Anyone know about lower teeth being overgrown?  As I said, Rodney was a rescue:  My other Chin always had plenty of hay,  lava blocks, and wooden chew toys for her teeth.

[dianah]

ah. it's a different thing to what i was thinking of. i still didn't know they did it but you know.. not a vet i know they don't normally do ultrasounds on pregnant chins and my vet was willing to have a go if it was necessary.

malocclusion are misaligned teeth, not overgrown teeth. usually a maloccluted chin's teeth will be overgrown as well because they do not align correctly and therefore don't grind down. however, there are plenty of other dental problems that include overgrown teeth. it is possible that he was fed the wrong diet. are they doing a dental xray? that way they can check roots etc.
mae, my rescue girl pretty much has a tusk, one of her incisor roots is ridiculous overgrown and she had a lot of spurs and spikes on her molars - this is due to the fact that she was fed on banana chips and chin mix, no hay etc. she had to have one of her molars taken out because it was broken and she had spurs filed. her incisors were only very slightly overgrown, the chewing surfaces were slightly angled. this is completely corrected now through the right diet although she has only worked out today how to eat hay (woohoooo!) - only took four months for her to work that out. there are these fab nuggets beaphar care+ which are made in a different way to other pellets, they're harder, crunchier and don't crumble and are great for chins with teeth problems. i use them and i can totally see results. they are a little more expensive but not outrageously. however, they're not available in the us. i know some people have them shipped but obviously it costs.. still, it probably costs less than regular filings if he has to have them.
you don't know his history so it's possible he didn't have enough roughage and chews.

i'm not sure why the vet prescribed baytril, it's not exactly fantastic for gut movement, in fact it does the exact opposite.

good luck, i have all my fingers crossed for rodney. he's in the right place and he's very lucky he found such a caring mum!

[christa]

Dianah:  Thanks for all your kind words,  and I will DEFINITELY look for those Beaphar pellets!  Worth having them shipped,  I think--think the Baytril was in case there was any intestinal infection,  picked up at the two shelters  the first was a big city shelter,  then a small one near me,  then my home---poor baby had too many moves  -And YES,  I will tell vet to do dental X-Rays; hope he is doing them on his own during Rodney's hospitalization,  as he is supposed to be an Exotics specialist and has treated many Chinchillas.  So your Mae is expected to be OK, then?  Very encouraging!  And how did you finally get her to eat hay?  Rodney also acted like he did not know what it was---makes me furious, anyone getting a Chin or other Exotic should DO THE RESEARCH    THANKS ONCE MORE!!!!

[dianah]

just make sure it's the care+ ones as they do a different nugget as well - xtra vital and those are just normal i think. i think they must taste really good as well, i gave them to my other chins and they love them. just be careful with changing food given the bloat situation. i would not give him any raisins or treats or anything other than nuggets, hay, maybe rolled oats every so often.

ah, that does make sense. it could be stress response christa - it does affect gut.. you never know.

well, for the time being, she's good. after the dental - this was in november, i got her at the end of october but she wasn't strong enough for the anaesthetic so i had to 'fatten her up' a little first - my vet thought she'd need another dental in two months in case there are spurs. i obviously can't see her molars but the fact that her incisors are completely straight now and she's eating really hard stuff like the nuggets and quite likes biting into wood (as long as i hold it for her), her other vet (same surgery, she was treating her gi stasis.. and respiratory infection she managed to get while in stasis) thinks she won't need one. the root is still there but it's ok for now, there's no puss or anything and it's not obstructing anything. the roots can actually slowly get smaller with the right diet and i think hers is getting slightly smaller. if there's any problem with it in the future she will have to have an incisor removed together with the root but hopefully that won't have to happen.

she just managed to work it out herself! i've been trying for months with all different types of hay and all. this morning i noticed that there was less hay in the bowl - although in the past she would try to eat it, like a watermelon slice rather than chew the end off and fail and get frustrated and throw it away - and i gave her a piece of hay and she just ate it! i had to go to work and when i came home, i gave her one and she didn't eat it. so i thought, well clearly that was a fluke. but then in the evening i gave her another one and she ate it and then like five more! she can do the flat wide ones but not the stalky ones. it's quite funny to watch her because she still gets surprised when it splits in two and things like that i think she must have watched the other chins.

you know.. mae is missing a back leg. when i got her, i asked and they told me she got it trapped when the previous owners were out. this is reasonably common so i assumed that she broke it and had to have it amputated. about two weeks ago though, i was talking to the rescue again and i was saying that i wondered which vet took her leg off (i live on a small island) as we could find out more about her if we knew that. well turns out that she chewed it off and these people DIDN'T TAKE HER TO THE VET!!!!!!!!!! i told her vet and asked if there could be any problems as a result and she said that she actually did a very neat job at chewing her leg off and it's fine. she was horrified though. so you can imagine what sort of people had her. she had about a week to live when i got her. and i didn't know how long she was going to live because we were really worried about the teeth, especially if there were any elongated roots in the top arcades but thankfully that was ok.
she is extremely affectionate, absolutely loves me, i've started doing this 'pretend grooming' where i scratch her around her eyes and nose and all like they would do and she absolutely loves it! she has this skin lesion on her chin which is not healing because the root that's lower down is pulling on the skin - it doesn't bother her but it oozes a bit of gunk and she hates having it cleaned if i take her out of the cage. when i do my pretend grooming, she is perfectly happy for me to tug on any bit of her face!

[jmdebb]

yah right with the baytril, thats for infections and it takes their appitite away.. hmmmm..


well hoping he is okay...

[christa]

Thank you jmdebb,  and dianah:  Yes,  I worry about the antibiotic making the gut worse.....exotic animals , as I have found with my Chinchillas, and also with my Opossum and ferret,  really require a lot of research and very meticulous care.  That is just horrible that poor Mae chewed her own leg off,  and they ignored it!  I cannot understand why people are so negligent,  unless it is that 1.  they cannot afford vet bills (I have spent well near 15 K the last year with my dog, cats,  Opossum, ferret,  Chins,  etc.--some real medical emergencies and surgeries)  and 2.  they assume animals somehow can just "take care of themselves"---not in captivity, in any case.....   I am glad to hear she is learning to eat hay,  and I hope Rodney will,  too....yes,  with your care,  she will heal up nicely,  and she is also very luck to have you as her "Mom" 

[christa]

Also,  found the BeaPhar Care Plus Chinchilla Pellets at this link:  http://www.cheekychinchillas.com/handfeed.html

[dianah]

thank you

it's not just the appetite, in some chins it makes the droppings very very dry and small and you really want the gut to be moist and moving!

i think they just didn't care. i live on the isle of man and if you don't have money for vet bills, the rescue (we only have one) will help. i didn't know how i'd pay for her incisor removal surgery (all my other animals are insured so i know if they need something expensive done, i can fall back onto the insurance) but i was going to fundraise. she has cost me about a grand and a half so far in the four months i've had her and i didn't even pay the vet bills until the end of january (the rescue did!). but in my opinion, if you cannot afford to keep a pet, pay vet bills, you shouldn't have a pet. i'd rather not eat than have them sick. it drives me insane. fair enough, your pet may never get ill. but you have to understand that they may get sick.

i don't think she was touched or anything. when i went to see her at the rescue, she bit me twice. i bled. no warning bites, nothing, she went straight in for the kill. i have never ever had that from my chins. the only two times i bled after a bite was when i gave chinchi critical care off my finger to see if he'd lick it off and he really liked it and bit into my finger and then another time i had my arm in the cage and one of the babies was sat on it while another was nibbling my fingers and i couldn't move my arm and he bit a bit too hard she was absolutely petrified of anybody going near her. she adores me now, it's really really sweet.

we do joke that we keep our vet surgery going - we even had a christmas card last year signed by ALL of them! they take the mickey at work but i do have twelve pets my husband keeps saying that they must think that we're absolutely loaded. we're not but we don't have kids, we don't go on holiday because we can't leave the pets so a lot of money gets spent on the monkeys

[christa]

Yes,  you have to be able to take care of them,  vet bills and all.... You have monkeys???

[dianah]

no no, i just call them all monkeys. i have a great dane, an ex racer greyhound, a deerhound/greyhound cross, six chinchillas and three guinea pigs. they're all monkeys!