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Author Topic: Newbie Question  (Read 3842 times)

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lsmurphy

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Newbie Question
« on: June 14, 2011, 03:49:24 PM »

Hi everyone,

I am looking for information on possibly introducing two chins for breeding purposes. Or just for company really as that's the reason I'm looking for a male. I recently rescued a (what turns out to be) female chin from a real bad situation. She was malnourished and confined to a tiny cage (a budgie birdcage) where she could barely turn around let alone get any excercise. Now, she is doing well, but she seems to be extremely discouraged/depressed. I have been told by a fellow chin lover that she needs company in the form of another chin, and my best bet would be to get her a mate (because I am interested in breeding). This chin is at least 2 years old and has had kits before. She is now on a good diet and her only issue is this depressed state of inactivity and just generally seeming to be down in the dumps.

What I need to know is.. how do I find her a mate and introduce her to him, are there safety issues when bringing in a new mate. I have been speaking with someone who has a 4 month old male for sale. He is her same type, and she wants to rehome him. He has been in a cage with his brother who is also for sale (but I only want one). Is there any reason a 2 year old female can not be mated to a 4 month old male. I do not need or expect them to breed RIGHT NOW. I am aware that males need to mature first, and am hoping they would use this time to bond.

Please no insults or jumping on me, I am brand new at this. Thanks in advance for the concerns and advice. :)
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chinclub

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Re: Newbie Question
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2011, 06:33:19 PM »

Great question.   ::nod::  If it were my chinchilla I would not choose to get a male.  Here are the reasons why I would make that choice.  

1.  I'm assuming there is no known historic on the girl.  This means the babies could have any number of health problems..malocclusion, heart murmurs, ect.

2. The female came from a bad situation.  If she was not cared for properly she most likely was not fed a good chinchilla pellet.  This means that it has very likely put stress on her liver and may have caused long term issues you aren't aware of yet. Her depression may be due to an underlying health problem not from loneliness. Pregnancy could put even more strain on her delicate system causing her to get sick or even die.

3.   After 15 years of breeding I have found that chinchillas who live alone for a long time do not enjoy being given a cage mate. (Unless it is a male being given a female) They may eventually bond but the introduction stage can be very stressful. The male will spend most of his time trying to breed and the female will spend her time either running or fighting until he realizes she isn't ready.   Since your girl is already showing signs of stress (depression) I wouldn't put her through that.


If you really want a second chinchilla I would go with a female, but if your choice of a second one is for her benefit I would try a stuffed animal in the cage and more bonding time out of the cage with you if she enjoys human interaction.

:)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 06:34:50 PM by chinclub »
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dianah

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Re: Newbie Question
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2011, 09:19:33 AM »

i agree with everything that jamie's said. you really do not want to breed this girl. apart from the fact that you don't know any genetic background, she's not come from good conditions and having babies could possibly kill her (there are plenty of stories out there about pregnancy/birth complications in healthy chinchillas).

is there any particular reason you want to breed? i would always recommend people keep chinchillas for a while before they decide to breed. they're very good at hiding that there's something wrong with them and you kind of need to develop a sixth sense to catch things in time. i had babies by accident (thought i had two boys, one of them turned out to be a girl) and with the first litter (the second was breedback, she got pregnant before we found the babies and separated the dad) she had mastitis and couldn't nurse. this meant we had to take over and had to keep triplets alive by handfeeding every two hours day and night, each feeding took at least half an hour. i had about 4 hours of sleep in the first week. they all pulled through but this is something you have to think about - do you have the time/work conditions to do this?
also, you need to separate dad from mum - ideally a few days before birth - as they go into heat straight after giving birth, getting pregnant while nursing is not good for them. so you'd need dad to be away from her, she may not want him to be around while she has the babies, she may not want him back after. if she does, she goes into heat every month so that means more babies. also, you need to separate boys from girls so you'd need another two cages for that.
if your main concern is that she's lonely, breeding her is not the best for 'companionship' given she'll have to spend quite long periods without her partner.

the fact that the male is the same type (i'm guessing you mean colour?) doesn't mean they'll get on. with any pair, you need to do introductions and they're not always successful. sometimes they take months.

i have a rescue girl who's been treated in an absolutely appalling way and i'm trying to introduce her to one of my boys (he's neutered) - we're sort of getting somewhere now but it's been two months since we've started!

i'm just wondering what are the signs of her depression? some chinchillas just don't do all that much!
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lsmurphy

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Re: Newbie Question
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2011, 04:52:57 PM »

Hi guys, thanks so much for your advice! Not the advice I was expecting, but good advice nonetheless...

I term it depression because she just seems miserable. She just sits huddled in the bottom of her cage, ignores her wheel and feed and hay most of the time and even when out and running around she really doesn't perk up, except to take her daily dust bath which she goes at vigorously and doesn't stop rolling until I either take the plate away or she's got it all over the ground. (LOL).

I suppose I want to breed because it interests me and although I realize that each animal has different husbandry techniques and issues, I do have experience breeding small animals of different species, and it's something I enjoy and love. Of course though, I will not breed from her if y'all think it would put her at risk. I did end up buying the pup today, but will happily keep them seperately if that would be better for them both.. would it still be alright to let them run together at "play time" as long as I'm keeping close tabs on them (as I always do while she's loose)?

I would be interested to know if there is some type of testing that can be done to determine any flaws she may be suffering (through the vet possibly?) to try and determine her soundness or fitness for breeding or should I just assume that it's a bad idea and find another female who is more suitable? I guess I had set my hopes on being able to raise kits from her, but like I said, her health is of course immensely more important than my desire to have kits.

Thank you again for your advice I really do appreciate the help :)
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dianah

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Re: Newbie Question
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 10:24:56 AM »

well... it's difficult to say. some of them don't really do all that much! snoozing and getting excited about the bath is sometimes what they're like! how long have you had her for? sometimes, especially if they've come from a bad situation, it takes them quite a while to get used to the new environment, new people, new routine. does she explore the surroundings when she's running around? what's her cage like? how does she respond to chews? does she have a house/tunnel/hammocks she can hide in? you said in your previous post that she was in a very small cage before. it's possible she stays in one place because that's all she was able to do before. mind you, all mine have a favourite spot where they spend most of their time.

it's not a good idea to let the girl and the boy play together. keeping a close eye doesn't quite help - by the time you notice something fishy's going on, it's too late. only takes seconds to get her pregnant. on top of that, you can't just put two chinchillas together to have a play. they need to be introduced gradually (some people use methods that take less time) and they are fully capable of killing one another so if they don't like each other... chinchillas bond with mates so when doing intros, you really want them to live together once they bond rather than have playdates.

i have never purposefully bred so maybe the breeders on here will have a better answer but i don't think there are tests for suitability for breeding. the general rules are: you need to know the history of the animal and the pedigree for five generations (malocclusion for example is a genetic disease but may skip a generation so your animal may be sound but the genetic background is flawed in which case the babies may be sick - malocclusion is a rather cruel disease, there are other genetic problems as well), the breeding pair should be healthy and of good weight, compatible colours, be over certain age (this is later for certain colours)

as jamie said, you have no idea about the girl's history, she came from a bad situation and she doesn't seem exactly happy either. having kits could kill her. i would absolutely not breed from her.

if you really do want to have kits, it would be best if you got a breeding pair with full pedigree. you will need a chinchilla experienced vet who has 24 hour emergency cover and is confident doing emergency c-sections etc. you'll have to be prepared for complications and the possibility of kits and/or mum dying. you'll have to think in terms of numbers and time frame, chinchillas often have triplets and quads (these will need your help with either rotating or hand feeding), they're pregnant for 111 days and go into oestrus within 24 hours after giving birth and about once a month when not pregnant. they have two horned womb which means they can get pregnant at different times, the babies are usually delivered at the same time and the younger don't survive. chinchillas can live to quite an old age and they can get pregnant and give birth at quite an old age (i think i heard somebody had a 17 year old with litter) so you'll have to think if you'll be wanting to do this in 17 years time still. sometimes when they have to do a c-section, they spay the chinchilla at the same time to reduce bleeding - this would mean no more babies but perhaps mum would survive.
when it goes well and there are no problems, it's lovely. if something goes wrong, it's extremely hard work and heartbreaking. when fluffy had mastitis and we had to hand feed, every time i went into their room, i was terrified i'd only see two of the babies moving. thankfully they all pulled through but i would have been absolutely heartbroken if i had lost any.

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ABC Chinchillas

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Re: Newbie Question
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2011, 08:51:30 PM »

You shouldn't breed a rescue female for all the above reasons. And for that reason she cannot even play with the male. Mating takes seconds a ton of people have had their chinchillas mate during playtime. No playtime
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AnnieHank

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Re: Newbie Question
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 03:26:28 AM »

Yeah, I'd advise against them having playtime together too. I recently let out my boy and his sister and mother together. I thought that if they had regular playtime together that they would be easier to reintroduce them after he's been neutered. They got on well and they were grooming faces which was good but my boyfriend and I literally had to follow Buddy around for the entire time and make sure he got no chances to mount the girls. I normally enjoy playtime with my chinchillas but this was no fun at all. I don't think it was very beneficial to the bonding process either. He started getting a bit grumpy with my hand following him around ready to push him away if he made to mount one of the girls. Very stressful, never again!
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