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[mbaker1238]

hi everyone,
a few days ago, i noticed that pika was drooling and had a very wet chin...and of course all i could think of was malocclusion. so i made a vet appointment and brought her in today. sure enough, i was right. my vet trimmed her teeth and checked the back molars too. I'm bringing her in for a followup on Tuesday and scheduled another appointment a month out for him to file them down again. do any of you have chins with malocclusion? what are your thoughts, she's young and i would hate to have her put down if she can still live a good life. and her sister would be completely heartbroken. opinions?
Thanks,
Morgan,pika and maisy 

[dianah]

does she definitely have malocclusion or were her teeth just overgrown? there is a common misconception that all dental problems in chinchillas are malocclusion. this is not so. malocclusion is a dental problem where the teeth don't align properly and thus don't grind against each other as they should which results in overgrowth.

however, there are other causes for overgrown teeth, wrong diet, too many treats, not enough chews, injury.

did your vet do the dental under anaesthetic? did they take xrays? it's quite difficult to see chinchilla mouth properly when they're awake and it's a good idea to see the roots on an xray as well.

if it is a case of malocclusion, it depends greatly on what teeth are involved and what extend this is. it can sometimes be managed by regular filings, sometimes it's just too complex to be treated. did the vet not give you an idea of what you're dealing with?

there are things you can do. increase vitamin c (you can give this in a vit c tablet, they quite often take it and eat it as a chew), feed alfalfa hay as this has more calcium and is harder to chew, there are special nuggets made by beaphar called care+ - these are manufactured in a different way and are harder and don't crumble.

my rescue chin had a severe case of overgrown teeth when i got her, they expected her to have to have a dental every 10 weeks or so. she had her first one in december last year and has not needed one since.
one of my girls just had a dental last friday - her teeth actually grow at the wrong angle so we'll have to see what happens.

what do you usually feed them? what chews do they get? i find some work better than others. do let us know and we'll see if there's anything that can be tweaked there!

[mbaker1238]

He did not take xrays, but did do the trimming under anesthetic. He said that it was malocclusion, should i ask him for an xray when i go back on Tuesday? I've had pika for about a year and a half, and the wet chin just showed up probly about a week ago, at first i though maybe she dribbled some water on herself. and then of course i noticed that it was constant and immediately went to google, did my research and called the vet. poor little pika was a rescue chin, i got her from a co-worker whose daughter wasnt caring for her properly. my chins are living the high life, 2 chinchilla mansions which are attached, tons of chews(pumice, woods...etc), on a mazuri diet with total enhancer supplement (from chinworld.com) and chinworld oat blend. they get both timothy hay, and alfalfa which are always stocked. i guess i just dont understand how her teeth would of overgrown with all the chews that she has access to.

one more question, today ive noticed that shes trying to eat but looks to be in a little pain. would she have sensitivity due to the tooth trimming?

thanks,
Morgan, Pika, and maisy

[dianah]

they can overgrow even if there's enough to chew on if they don't align properly. if you imagine two teeth opposite one another grind against each other when chewing food. if they're not perfectly aligned, the surfaces won't wear down properly.

do you know how old pika is? i know you say she's a rescue. do you know which teeth were filed? it's not uncommon for chins to stop eating after a dental partly because it can be sensitive and partly because the mouth feels different. fluffy had quite extensive filing (we didn't realise how bad she was until she went under, it was her back teeth so the vet couldn't see them properly when she was awake) and she still won't eat proper food by herself - she eats critical care off a spoon though.

i would ask about an xray but perhaps do that next time she has a dental - they have to put them under to take xrays.

it would be a good idea to weigh her on a very regular basis just so you know how her teeth are doing once she recovers from her dental.

[mbaker1238]

I believe that pika is 2 or 3, and i called the vet today and got some critical care for her. just gave it to her and she took it fine. i noticed her trying to eat before i left to pick up the critical care and she was trying to chew and then was sucking on her pellets. so ill guess ill just keep and eye on her, and see how it goes. maybe it does just feel weird for her. thanks for the help 

[dianah]

you could soften the pellets for her by adding a bit of warm water if she's trying to eat them!

[Squirrel_Butt]

My Frisbee had a missing incisor for most of her life. I had to bring her to the vet for a trimming every 2-3months. It is possible to manage malocclusion without euthanizing, depending on the teeth involved.

[mbaker1238]

help...pika has a wet chin again. why would she have this if all of her teeth were trimmed down? what are all the signs of pain? please get back to me, i dont know what to do. she was just at the vet yesterday and looked like she was finally feeling better.

[dianah]

are you weighing her? has she lost any weight? is she eating? pooping? she may have a wet chin because there's been a change in her mouth and it feels a little strange. fluffy finally started eating on her own on wednesday night but she still has a wet chin.

signs of pain.. this one's difficult given that they are very good at hiding any signs of illness. she would be reluctant to eat what she was eating yesterday, say, my lot also go very quiet and uninterested in anything at all when they're not well. sometimes they behave oddly, for example they're withdrawn or are staying in unusual places in the cage.

i wouldn't panic. if she was at the vet yesterday and the vet was happy with her, she's eating and pooping and is generally ok in herself and keeping her weight, i wouldn't panic too much (easy to say, i know!). it's also possible her chin's wet because the vet was having a look in her mouth? maybe? let us know how she's doing regarding to her weight etc!

[mbaker1238]

Me, being panicked, called the vet after i posted that and got her right in, because i was planning on going away for the weekend. what really concerned me was that i gave her a raisin and she tried to chew it, then i came back and it was in a pile of drool on the shelf. needless to say, I'm a worried chinchilla mother. He looked at her today, and did notice that she looked uncomfortable, looked in her mouth again and then knocked her out and filed down two of her molars in the way back, there weren't hooks on them but they were overlapping. he said that basically her jaw is crooked which causes the teeth not to grind down properly. so she's on antibiotics once again, for another ten days and still supplementing with critical care and yogurt. poor pika has been through so much the last week, hopefully once we get it under control it wont be as invasive every time. so she's going back monday for another checkup...geez what we do for our animals! as far as weight goes, he weighed her yesterday and she was fine. so looks like i'm not going away this weekend and staying home to care for my little one. i'll keep you all posted 

[dianah]

awwww poor little girl hope she's feeling better

haha, i know what you mean. i had spock at the vet last thursday and the vet is off for a week so she just let me know (we see her often, there are other vets at the surgery but she's very very good with chinchillas) and i was thinking what my 'holidays' were this year. well, a week ago i took a week off when fluffy had her dental and refused to eat. i had a week off at the start of the year when the boys were getting neutered. i also had a week off at tt, this was not animal related last year, i had to take time off unpaid because i adopted mae and she was in stasis and needed forcefed, hot compress and her belly rubbed every hour or so.

yes we're mad

[mbaker1238]

dianah,
how long after the dental did fluffy have a wet chin? pika still has it and had her teeth filed friday, so four days?
again i'm freaking out because shes pulling out hair on her front arms and chest, have a call into the vet but he hasnt called back yet.

[dianah]

he only had her dental just over two weeks ago and i did notice she had a wet patch on the side of her mouth when i got home from work today. she didn't eat by herself for over a week, i had her teeth checked out and it all looked good. she went on a course of antibiotics just in case there was a cut the vet couldn't see and she started eating by herself and started to put weight back on. but i noticed last night she was eating quite slowly so i'll have to weigh her today and see if there's been any change.

i'd freak out as well if she's pulling out hair and has never done that before. is it possible she's in pain? do you have any metacam you could give her until the vet gets back to you?

[mbaker1238]

i dont have any metacam, he didnt give me any. she has an appt this afternoon. Have you ever felt the bumps on the lower jaw due to tooth and root elongation? she has two little bumps on each side, the vet said an xray wasnt necessary, but now im not too sure he knows what he's talking about. poor pika, i dont know what to do. wont eat yogurt, baby food, critical care, or softened pellets. takes her pellets and still just chews them to dust. ultimately, i'm shoving the mixture down her throat, when is enough enough? is it bad that euthanasia is crossing through in my mind?

[dianah]

jaw's bumpy. don't panic over bumps. the lumps on either side are normal. it's quite difficult to tell for a person who doesn't know which bump on the jaw is normal and which isn't but i know that all of mine have a bump on either side and that's fine.

i would suggest.. is there another vet you could go for a second opinion? a chin specialist or a vet with keen interest in exotics? i find it alarming that he'd not done xrays, that's pretty much standard practice as i understand it. i would not think euthanasia as yet. i had a chinchilla with dental problems (the rescue girl) i had to force feed - and i mean absolutely force feed - for a few months and she's absolutely thriving now.

i would do a few things

1/ find a different vet for a second opinion
2/ insist on pain relief - that's important, they do not want to eat if they're in pain and i would imagine it's worse if it's their mouth that hurts
3/ force feed. it's very important she eats or else you're risking gut problems. critical care would be my preferred choice but anything you can get into her at this point is good. if she's swallowing, it's all good. with mae, i had to get the fine grind critical care because she would just not have the standard stuff and it would not go through syringe easily. with the fine grind, you can make up a mixture - i mix it with warm water, they seem to prefer it - and prepare a lot of 2.5ml syringes, i find these are the best for feeding because the pressure on the piston is not too great so it doesn't come out squirting. just be careful to put it in the side of her mouth rather than straight down in case she inhales it. have four or five ready and just do it one after another. if you can't get fine grind critical care and can't get it quick (i had to do this), you could get a electric coffee grinder and grind it til it's fine enough to go through the syringe without trouble - it took 7 x 1 minute cycles on mine (it was cheap!)

i would definitely try all these things before thinking it's enough. if she's in pain and she's got nothing to help her with it, it's no wonder she's not keen on eating. she also may have an infected cut perhaps...

is there another vet nearby who could have a look at? even if it's not an exotic specialist - we don't have an exotic hospital on the island but my vet is absolutely fantastic with chinchillas - so it may be worth ringing a few surgeries and ask if there's somebody who's experienced in treating chinchillas?