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[Faken]

Hello everyone, great to be a new part of this wonderful forum.  Sort of interesting how I ended up back in the world of Chinchillas and this forum, so here's a bit about me and my pet history if you will

I used to have two chinchillas years and years ago when I was in my late teens (I moved out when I was quite young) and the internet was just being born.  In fact back then the big thing was BBS systems and such, and it was a fellow BBS owner that got me in to Chinchillas.  I started with a beautiful standard named Marley and a few months later picked up an ebony friend for Marley and I can't for the life of me remember his name.  Anyhow, perhaps a year later I ended up moving around a lot, wasn't stable and gave both my chins and cage to a friend of a friend and that was about it.

Fast forward to now and I am divorced and remarried, have a wonderful amazing 10 year old daughter and have since rescued 2 german shepherds, was a sponsor family for a Mira Foundation guide dog puppy and currently have a 5 year old wolf hybrid who is my timid little chicken trapped in a wolf's body.  Outside of my love of dogs, a year and a half ago I purchased my first rodent, my rat Whippet.  I'm not ashamed to say that I fell in love with Whippet instantly and she became my tiny shadow.  We ate breakfast together before I would go to work and she was on my shoulder or at my side as soon as I was home until bed time.  She was honestly one of the most amazing pets I've ever had and I was absolutely devastated when I had to put her down due to a huge mammary tumor that the vet wanted $550 to remove.  I bawled like a broken hearted child for days and it took me 2 weeks before I could even clean out her cage.

Whippet was my first rat and I had no idea going in that they had so many health problems, including the huge risk of tumors and their very short expected lifespans.  So, while I ADORED my rat and per personality and just everything about rats, I just can't handle going through this kind of heart break every 2 years or so, I'm a big wuss like that I suppose.

So after a few weeks, I started thinking about getting a new furry baby, but something that would be closer to a rat but with a much longer lifespan.  My regular dog vet suggested a ferret as they make an amazing companion animal and a lot of what people say about ferrets is absolute nonsense or grossly exagerrated.  I started looking in to it when the one consistent thing I saw on forums was people asking for ways to get rid of the ferret smell that was in their house.  My wife has a sensitive nose so this put up all kinds of red flags.  While I researched, I started thinking about getting a Chin again... from what I could remember, I knew they're not really at all like rats, but were very sweet, playful and of course don't stink in the slightest.

My wife and I visited a local pet store that had some young ferrets in stock and sure enough, she HATED the natural smell of the ferrets, which of course gets stronger as they get older, not to mention when you have a cage in the house with one.  Personally I didn't think it was that bad, but she most definitely did NOT like it and I knew the Ferret was a no go.

As we're getting ready to leave, I noticed in one of the displays there was one of those ceramic chin baths so I took a closer look and sure enough, there was an adorable young standard chin maybe 3 months old staring back at me from his ceramic hideout. I couldn't help myself, I asked to hold her and see how her tempermant was.  Now I know from lurking on this forum for a bit that you can't expect a chin to jump in your arms until a lot of patient handling has been done, but I seem to remember my original two always loved being held. Well, I completely fell in love and 45 minutes later I'm driving home with my wife with a new chin in her lap and several bags of supplies in the back. 

It's been 2 days since Peaches has come home with us and I am stunned at how this little girl is behaving.  I open the cage door and she jumps right out within a few seconds in to my outstretched hands and loves to be petted and scratched all over.  If I put her down on the floor, she explores, comes back for a quick rub down and a kiss and scampers off again.  I can hold her in my arms and she sits there and lets me hold her for as long as I want or hops up on my shoulder for some nice kisses.

The best part was my daughter came over today (This is my weekend with her) and had no idea what was waiting for her.  I should mention she is obsessed with animals of ANY kind and was also extremely upset when whippet passed away.  So I had her calmly open the cage door and see if Peaches would come sniff her hand, only to have her come and basically jump in to her arms!  My daughter was grinning ear to ear, it was awesome. 

So now comes some of my challenges, mostly due to a shoddy memory... what can I say, my early 20s were pretty busy lol!  I have a lot of gaps in my memory about my original chins so I am coming here in hopes to get some answers and of course participate.  In fact I wish I could post some pics but I am on my ipad atm so I'll add some later (ipad with a Bluetooth keyboard lol!).  I just can't remember several things so I am hoping to find out some tips on the following:

1. Peaches poops constantly... I mean when you pick her up, she's defecating almost every 20 seconds as you hold her.  It's honestly not out of fear as she eagerly jumps in to my hands, but she seems to just be going all over the place all the time.  Is this normal and is it because she's just a youngling?  I don't remember my chins pooping all the time.  Thanks god they're easy to clean lol!

2. I can't for the life of me remember what I used for the litter/beddng at the bottom of the cage back then.  I am currently using those recycled newspaper pellets "Yesterday's News" which I had left over from my rat.  The Chin was actually using that at the pet store and the lady who took care of the rodents told me YN was fine.  Peaches isn't eating any of it, but worried this isn't the best option.

3. She bites a LOT!  Inside the cage, she will constantly nip my fingers... not enough to break skin but enough to hurt my daughter.  I'm assuming she is just learning what is edible and what is not and will eventually learn that my hands aren't edible.  I know chins use ther mouths to feel everything out, so I assume this is completely normal.  Is here some kind of correction I should do when she nips or tests my fingers to see if they're ready to eat?  Outside the cage she does it a lot less... again to me this is very normal.  I think I just got used to rats, which never bite whatsoever even when alarmed.

Those are really my main concerns at this point... I'll be continuing to hunt through the forum as I look to upgrade the cage as she gets bigger (I am using the 3 level rat cage for now), ideas for toys and such for inside the cage and for top premium food suggestions.  I tend to believe that food found at pet stores tend to be inferior.  My hybrid's dog food comes from a holistic pet food store and is made fresh in Canada and is grain free... up until this year you could NEVER find premium food like this at a regular pet store.

See? Told you guys I like to type lol!  Anyhow, nice to meet all of you and look forward to chatting with you all in the future. 

Talk soon!
Dan

[GrayRodent]

Wow I thought I was bad about typing long messages!
Congrats on your new chinchilla. Your story is somewhat like mine. I loved my rats but then was unable to have a pet for a while. What I wanted was a cat but my mom is severely allergic. The chinchilla was a great alternative for me.

I used to keep rats and really enjoyed playing with them but they all had tumors. I knew of their short life expectancy going in but the tumors were awful. Later I learned that the tumors are usually a result of poor breeding practices and finding a well cultivated line is very difficult. For a while I had to move frequently and live in places where I could not have a pet and when the time came to start looking I settled on the chinchilla.

In the current state of chinchilla breeding it's kind of the same way with malocclusion and other types of heartbreaking genetic conditions that can either cut their lives short or take the fun out of pet ownership. The cleanest lines are from large fur ranches because they meticulously manage very large herds on a scale that pet breeders cannot achieve. The most reputable pet breeders get their bloodlines from large ranches and take the time necessary to socialize their kits so they make nice pets. It is very difficult if not impossible to tame a chinchilla that has not been raised as a pet, at least to any similar degree of tameness that you would with a hand raised animal.

My first chinchilla came from a pet store (and from owners who did not do a good job of socializing him) and I had to put him to sleep about 6 months after I got him because of malocclusion. Some people will choose to get their teeth filed as a treatment but that becomes a huge expense several times a year and sometimes it doesn't prevent other complications. My second chinchilla was hand raised from a breeder. The quality of his fur is strikingly different and is way better and I don't have to worry too much about malocclusion because he comes from good lines and tooth problems caused by poor diet can be ruled out since I know he's been properly cared for. He is also extremely tame, will sit still on my lap to get petted, and will even ride around on my shoulder. The other chinchilla was not like that. He is not as good with other people but I feel the potential is there if I work with him.

To answer some of your questions:
1. Chinchillas do not have control of their bowels like other animals (rats don't either but although they don't seem to be as bad). It is easy to deal with because it usually comes out mostly dry and does not easily smear or stain anything. I've found with mine that some times of day are much worse than others and some times a day there's really not much at all. I think activity level is a big driver there. I keep a small broom and dustpan nearby at all times.

2. Bedding is a somewhat debated topic among experts. In my opinion kiln-dried pine or aspen chips are the safest. Cedar is unsafe. I know some compressed paper beddings can cause bowel obstructions if enough is ingested but many use it without problems.

3. My chinchilla does chew on my sometimes and will chew on just about anything. And sometimes he'll groom my arm hairs and get too rough. I pull him away and hold him so he pressed against my chest and his back is against my chest and he's facing forward. He does not like that very much but it's not super stressful. In fact he's becoming more tolerant of that the more I do it. This way he can't chew on my clothes and I can still mess with him. I do this for a few seconds and let him flip himself over and I'll let him be until he starts doing it again. Over several days you'll see an improvement and your chinchilla will get used to being held that way so if he acts up you can keep him from chewing on you. For more extreme instances of nipping I tell him no and rapidly pull him away. You can also blow in its face or give it a gentle slap. I've done the latter and it took only two times to cure it.

4. Diet is very important. Timothy hay is usually the hay of choice. It doesn't matter what brand it is as long as it's green, fresh, and free of mold. Chinchillas must have constant access to hay and can subsist on it without pelleted diet. Pelleted diet is a good supplement and it's good practice to have a constant supply of that especially for growing chins. That is where finding a good blend is tough. If you stay away from the ones with treats and colorful who-knows-what you'll probably be okay. Oxbow and Mazuri make good blends (I hear Mazuri is the best). I would stay away from exotic stuff and keep treats to a minimum. Chinchillas have basic needs and are designed to eat a basic diet. Things like nuts or sugary stuff can be extremely harmful over time. Sugars can cause horrific tooth problems (Rodent's teeth constantly grow and the wear pattern must be very exact), and nuts can cause liver damage and digestive issues.

5. Toys are easy to make if you can saw wood. Untreated pine boards and pine scraps are all you need, but you do need them. Wooden shelves in the cage are also important. Pumice stone chews in addition to that is good as well. Cardboard and paper can be given as a treat. Both my chinchillas would eat cardboard to the exclusion of food and that is a bad thing but it's good on occasion. A variety of textures is good to keep the wear on the teeth even.

That's all I have time for this morning. Have a great day.

[Faken]

  yeah I tend to prattle on sometimes... I think most people that saw my post just saw a 100 foot wall of text and quickly hit the back button lol!  I've actually participated and have run large forums for years so I know people rarely read novels when they expect posts 

I apologize for taking so long to thank you for your response and answers, I'm actually rebuilding my house and finishing the basement before the end of the month so my personal PC time is pretty short, especially with a new Chin in the house that needs my loving attention.  First off, here's some lovely blurry iphone pics of Peaches in her glory!





It's interesting so much information on Chins with the advent of the web now... when I had my two in the mid-90s you really had no resources like this and most pet stores knew nothing about them so there was a lot of guesswork or calls to other chin lovers to get their feedback.  Most didn't even have emails!  Had to be all over the phone or we would mail photos via snail mail. 

This is the cage I am using for the time being (not my photo) http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Squeeky_Noel/Winter%202009%20rescues/2rats.jpg until I get a chance to shop for a new one this summer as she gets bigger and needs more room.

This is the Hay I am using (Oxbow Alfafa Hay - I am told this is the best hay for chins due to the calcium and vitamin C levels in this hay) http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/products/animal/largepicture?picture=671&object=1612

In the cage I also got her a Snak Shak http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753529

And she has a hanging chew toy with wood and natural lava pumice stones on it, plus some apple twigs.

And here is the food she as on when I got her... I have a feeling this is no good despite the reviews: http://www.zooplus.com/shop/rodents/food/chinchilla/prestige/126662

I'm really sorry to hear you had the same experience I did with rats, just so heart breaking.  They are amazing animals and really the most well rounded pet I have ever owned and completely suited to my lifestyle.  Such a shame they have so many health issues and a short life span.  They need to come up with rats that live for 30 years lol!  I have to say though... Peaches is capturing my heart in a big way, she is a complete sweetheart.

And yes rats are nowhere near the poop level of Chins... I used to take Whippet out for an hour at a time and I've NEVER been pooped on and maybe one or two accidents while out of the cage.  With Peaches, I can't get her from the cage to the other side of the house without a little surprise lol!  But as you said, easy to clean the brown rice 

Thanks again for all your feedback

Dan

[GrayRodent]

I like the brown rice analogy. I'll have to remember that. As for posting late it doesn't bother me. Sometimes I have to let messages slide for a few days and hit the high spots.

Looking at the "snak shack" I think you might not want to give that to your chinchilla especially if there is a lot of honey in it which is a listed ingredient. Perhaps others can comment but first impressions to me is that it is not safe.
Chinchillas have extremely sensitive digestive systems compared to other rodents and are apparently worse than guinea pigs. Too much sugar can cause gas buildup inside the intestine and can cause potentially serious complications. They can have raisins or dried fruits on occasion but the recommended allowance is about two raisins per day or equivalent. Some argue it should be less but I know of one large ranch that did a study on raisins and gave two a day - one in the morning, one at night, to many chinchillas, and had no problems.

Pumice stone is awesome. My chinchilla will destroy them in short order. It is very good for keeping teeth trimmed. It also sounds like a knife on a sharpening stone when a chinchilla grinds it down.

Alfalfa hay is good but it might be advisable to feed timothy if you are also feeding pellets since they are (usually) alfalfa based. Too much rich food can cause digestive upset. Also changes in diet should be done gradually over a period of 5-7 days. I would try to keep the diet the same for at least a week or two from the time you bring your chinchilla home. Chinchillas are easily stressed and often have loose stools the first week after relocation although some individuals are worse than others.

Looking at the ingredients in those pellets I'm kind of horrified. Pellets should be alfalfa based. Soy additives are okay but I have to wonder if it has the same teeth trimming benefits. Fruit and fructose is not. Grain is going to be high in fat which can cause lipidosis over time. I recommend a gradual change to alfalfa pellets and timothy hay. Perhaps someone who knows more can comment.

Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Have a great evening.

[Faken]

Yes the fact that it's bonded with honey worried me after I read about the danger of too much sugar so I'm going to keep an eye on her in terms of how much she chews it.  Right now she isn't chewing it at all and is sticking to her food, pumic, hay and wood etc so not too concerned right now.  I'll replace it in the next couple of months with a wood house I'll make her or sooner if I see she starts gnowing on it a lot.  Her diet is really strict, maybe one raisin per day as a treat and that's about it.

I've been looking everywhere for the Oxbow pellets that ppl recommend and so far every shop around here has the same food that I am currently using, so I guess I might have to order it online.  For the Timothy hay, is there a particular brand I should look for or is any brand pretty much the same thing?

Take care
Dan

[GrayRodent]

Mazuri is actually the best that I know of. Another option is Purina Rabbit Show (regular rabbit food is not safe) but that usually comes in very large quantites.
As far as hay it doesn't matter what brand since the varieties of hay are uniform in the industry, as long as it is fresh, green, and does not smell of mold.

[lilchinchilla]

Hi Faken. Glad to see someone from Canada. I don't really suggest the oxbow, as I've heard of issues with chins going off feed while on it from other pet owners who used it, or having tummy troubles/weight loss since they changed to a new formula in 2011. I do sell supplies in Canada, and the feed I sell is locally milled in BC. I don't know where you are located, but I do ship, as well as offer delivery in the area and I welcome customers to pick up locally too. 

The diet I sell is Alderpark pellets, it is only $0.54 a lb, milled right here on the island, and always fresh. The diet is one that has been used privately by breeders and ranchers in BC, since the 1960's, when it was first formulated by a nutritionist named Dr Koch.

Dr Koch had studied both chinchillas in the wild and as well on fur ranches, back in the 60's, to determine what chinchillas need for a complete diet. While it is complete, you still need to feed hay for roughage, if you did decide to use it. I personally love the diet. I had used mazuri back in the late 90's and found while it is an okay diet for pet chinchillas; for breeding chinchillas, it left a lot to be desired. I've been using these pellets for a number of years now, and haven't had any issues. The chins tend to be rounder and have more muscle mass on their bodies with this diet.
My store link is: http://chinchillaparkplace.ca/chinstuffstore//

I don't know if Purina Rabbit show is available in Canada, and have never heard of it being used in Canada, but it is used often in the US and I have heard good things about it from the pet owners and breeders in the States.