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[mb30]

I made this thread lastnight on another board. I'm just going to link it and ill give a summary here

http://www.chinchillaworld.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10367&p=69709

Yesterday, one of my chins was taken to the exotic vet. She has a vaginal infection.
Long story short i have to give her .27 of baytril once a day for seven days.

Other than that she is in perfect health. No issues with her weight, breathing, teeth, etc.

I would like some advice from people that have had to use baytril.
I wasn't able to go to the vet yesterday but my wife took the chin and told me all the vet told her.

The only thing that really concerns me is what do i use as a probiotic?
Is it absolutely necessary to use a probiotic along with the baytril?

I have read in past threads on here to wait 3 hours after to give a probiotic.
Is there anymore up to date info?

If i choose yogurt will i need to get sugar free yogurt?

My chin isn't out of the woods yet but hopefully we caught it early enough. The pus was still coming out which is a good thing.we administered the first dose of baytril yesterday. A drop was wasted so it was more like .24 than .27. Will that make a huge difference? Also, is there any tricks or tips to not get any air bubbles in the syringe whem dealing with such small amounts? Basically we just would get one drop at a time on the tip of the syringe and then put it in the chins mouth.(to make sure all the air was out)

This is a first for syringe feeding and baytril. I have some critical care coming

[mb30]

Sorry, last post ended short.

Is it essential to give critical care while on antibiotics?
My chin seems to have stopped eating pellets but is still eating hay and leaves from this chinchilla herbal forage i got from pets at home(in the uk).

I figure better some food than no food.b

Anyways, shes not out of the woods yet but fingers crossed all will be okay.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

[GrayRodent]

I do agree it's better that there's some food than no food but in this case I feel that syringe feeding is still important because he is eating far less than normal. You probably don't have to give a full syringe though per feeding as long as he's still eating.
Chinchillas typically eat precisely the amount they need to maintain their weight so you should try to get his caloric intake back up to where it was.
Having a chinchilla that is not getting enough food is risky especially when they are trying to fight an infection they need that nutrition to get well. The other issue is digestive. When I had a chinchilla with malocclusion starting to eat about half his food I noticed he was having abdominal pain after a few days which might also tell you something about the need to keep the proper volume of food flowing through. My experience with baytril was very short lived as I had that chinchilla euthanized less than a week after starting it but he was already completely off his food from malocclusion and exclusively syringe fed to start with.

As far as probiotics go I think that is a debatable issue. I've seen both sides of it and I'm not terribly convinced they work but I'm also not entirely convinced they don't. In some cases it does seems to help. The most important thing is just to keep those guts flowing. When the course of antibiotics is over it should all correct itself. If you give yogurt, which is typically recommended by the breeders on this board, it should be sugar free. Sugar can be very detrimental to an already compromised bowel. I think it's one tablespoon 3 hours after medicating.

As far as dosing the medications .27 is actually larger than when I was treating my Kulu for coccidia with Albon. The vet provided me with insulin syringes that are 1.0ml and they were pretty easy to use. Just draw the fluid up into the syringe, then point the syringe upwards, pull some air into it and let all the fluid settle out. Then push the plunger until the fluid reaches the top and then read the amount. If it's too much you can either push the excess out or if it's too little draw some more in and repeat the steps until it's right.

As far as loosing drops here and there during feeding that is usually going to happen. The worst is when it sticks to the fur under the chin and you have to wipe it off with a damp rag. The most important thing with antibiotics is to stay on schedule.

[mb30]

Thanks for all the info. I am wondering myself about the probiotics. It is the one thing still causing alot of stress for me.

Would you recommend critical care then, if her foos intake is slowin

I have never had to use critical care and have never even seen it.
Does it absolutely have to be syringe fed? And whats a safe amount?

I also have the 1ml syringe.

As far as the .27 dose...i guess i will have to take the vets word although it is scary to hear you were told to use less.

[mb30]

Do you think the size of the dose is calculated in accordance to the size of the chinchilla?

[GrayRodent]

I used Albon, which is not Baytril. The dose is based on the mass and species of the animal and the volume of medication will depend on the concentration of active ingredient in the solution. Just go with what is prescribed.

I do recommend feeding critical care at this point if your chinchilla has stopped eating its pelleted diet. You should be able to get it from your vet and get a couple of 10cc feeding syringes. There are dosing instructions on the website but your vet will probably tell you how much to give as it is typically marketed to veterinarians who prescribe it and not consumers. I think your vet will agree it's a good idea to feed, at least part of the diet, in this way until your pet starts eating normally again. I know that in America we use Oxbow critical care but they may have something different in the UK but it should be pretty much the same thing. The way it is done typically is you'll mix up what you need for the whole day then draw from that to feed two or three times a day.

With Oxbow Critical care for Herbivores I think each feeding is somewhere around 10cc for a 500g chinchilla if I remember right.

It doesn't have to be syringe fed. In fact when my chinchilla (the one I have now), Kulu, was sick with coccidia, and was put on Albon, there were about two days when I thought he needed the critical care because he unexpectedly went off his water. He licked it off the tip of the syringe and even the drips from the floor because he liked it. Some chinchillas will do that and some require forcing it down, especially if they have gone anorexic and are not feeling well. Using the syringe, at the very least, to measure it out is important but it can be fed on a spoon.

It is always best to have semi-damp washcloth ready to clean around the mouth. The substance dries into the fur like concrete.

[mb30]

Yeah, it is the same here. I ordered the oxbow critical care for herbivores from amazon. I had a feeling i was going to need it...i have been meaning to get some anyways just in case i ever need any.

I had it delievered next day so hopefully it wil be there when i get home from work.

I really hope she will eat it without having to syringe feed it. The poor thing is very stressed when taking the baytril.

She was eating hay yesterday and this morning she was eating apple sticks and chewing on the pumice stone.

She isnt AS active as usual but she still seems alright otherwise.
Also, she weighed 700 grams at the vets.

She is definitely not anywhere near as bad of shape as the chin i lost to a respitory illness.

Hopefully she will be alright...shes a very sweet chin and im really afraid for her cagemate if the worst does happen

[mb30]

It does baffle me how she got an infection. I keep the cage immaculate.
I have a feeling it has something to do with the dust bath. I recently switched from sepiolite to blue cloud and the blue cloud is so much more fine. I wonder if that is the cause.

[GrayRodent]

I'm sorry you're facing yet more trouble. I kind of freaked out myself when Kulu got coccidia because of loosing my first chinchilla but the antibiotics did their job and everything cleared up. The 10 day course seemed to take forever. It makes it way easier when you medicate or syringe feed with two people and have everything set up in advance, the medications already dosed, damp rags sitting ready on the desk etc. to make things go as quickly and smoothly as possible.

I think sometimes these kinds of things don't have any good explanation but usually it's eye infections that you hear more about. I don't know that much about sepiolite. I've always used Blue Cloud.

Here's the info on the oxbow critical care dosages:
http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/resources/dyn/files/98781z8d46767/_fn/2008+Critical+Care+feeding+chart+front+only.pdf

So based on my knowledge of this (and you may want to double check my figures) if your chinchilla's healthy weight is 500g it calls for 1.7tbsp, and 1kg it calls for 2.9tbsp so in between that is 1.8tbsp and that converts to about 27cc. I'm not sure what you're measuring with but you'll be good if you're in the ballpark.
So that's the total amount for one day for an animal that is if your pet is not eating anything else. So unless your chinchilla goes completely off its food start by cutting that in half and you get about 14cc. Mix that with two parts water (add 28cc) and break that into two feedings (let's just round to 14) so each feeding is about 14cc. You can adjust the amount of water larger or smaller to get the consistency you want within reason.
I do recommend calling your vet and asking him about what dose and mixture he would recommend and let him know you are having a problem. I am not a vet and cannot guarantee my advice is the best route.
If your chinchilla goes completely off its food notify your veterinarian and get further instructions. These animals will do better with a more constant rate through their system and you may want to feed three or four smaller feedings per day as evenly spaced across 24 hours as reasonably possible.

I do also recommend removing apple sticks from the cage if she is eating them and leave the pumice and regular pine toys. I know some chinchillas will do this to the exclusion of their normal diet to certain kinds of sticks. This may improve her appetite.

As far as loosing your pet, and that is pure speculation and I don't see that happening because she is otherwise healthy, I've seen many cases where the cagemate does just fine. I wouldn't worry too much about it. The worst cases are usually when the chins are a breeding pair.

[mb30]

Thank you again for all your advice. She seems to be doing better today. She came out this morning and was active.
Her vagina is pink again and not covered in white mucus. It is still swolen though.
Her thirs round of baytril will be administered today.
Hopefully we will be able to get some acidophilus today. I did get critical care yesterday but i held off on giving it to her. I think today we will try to give her some. She is still eating hay but doesnt seem to want the pellets.
Her poops are still tiny but they are there and quite a few so that is a good sign.

She was definitely perkier this morning. She is doing very well considering all the stress of syringe feeding.
She is still coming to me andjumping in my hands and stuff.

Her fur was wet around her private areas but i think thats to be expected with this type of infwction

She is still taking the leafy green herbs from the chinchilla forage too.

[mb30]

She eat this miracle mumch which you can see here

http://www.chinchillas2shop.co.uk/treats.htm

Also on the same site under hay and food you can see beet pulp pellets
She will eat that too

I only give her one of those

And  pinch of miracle munch every other day

Just want to keep food in her

[GrayRodent]

Sounds good. Sounds like the correct antibiotics were also used. I still recommend supplimenting with critical care. IMO It is worth the stress of an extra syringe feeding to treat that constipation which can also cause discomfort, gas buildup, and a different kind of stress. Even one a day is better than better nothing at this point. Feeding the other things might not be the best way to go because they are more of a treat than a solid meal.

[mb30]

Yeah, my wife just sent me a text saying she gave her some critical care. Unfortunately she had to syringe feed it.
She said she gave her 2ml and her poop is already a bit bigger so thats great news.

Do you think a chinchilla can become accustomed to critical care if given for too long and wont go back to their regular food?

[mb30]

I know these are questions i should have been asking the vet but im not convinced she has any personal experience in dealing with an illness and recovery other than knowing what to prescribe.

She was very quick on the phone because she was understandably busy and just left the instructions from the oxbow criticalcare site.

She also said if my chin wasnt eating in two days she would need to go back but that goes against all the information i have sen on here and other chin boards. It seems to me people use critical care throughout the whole cycle of antibiotics.

She is good and knows how to handle the chins and knows about them but only people who have gone through these situations know about the little things that can make all the difference.

[GrayRodent]

I can certainly understand that. I do know that chinchillas that are on the critical care don't develop a dependency on it. I've heard some cases where the owners will go too far and keep giving it when they don't need to. When an animal is hungry it is going to eat.
With animals like yours that are affected by the antibiotics (not all chins are) which I have seen cases like yours more than once on this board, they bounce back usually within 24 hours of being taken off the meds and critical care.
Based on the cases I've seen on this board I have concluded that 48 hours without food can push them to the point of no return when they are on antibiotics. I don't know why that is but I've seen it twice now where the animals die from GI stasis that cannot be reversed even with intensive medical therapy and both times the owner observed they stopped eating for two days. So I think 24 hours is probably a better guideline. But you don't have to wait now that you have the critical care and you can keep her alive and nourished on that indefinitely by making up for any loss of appetite. This kind of thing, as you know, is common and the treatment for any species of animal that is not eating its normal diet is the same.