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[Tarash]

Hey, I just got myself 2 Chinchilla females about 2 weeks ago, before that I did a bunch of research on them to try and make sure I could provide a stable and healthy environment for them, obviously as many of you could probably tell me as well, no amount of research can fully prepare you for all the the things that could happen and probably will happen when you own chins, so to that end I have a few questions I'm hoping you guys could help me shed some light on.

A little info about them first, from what I was told by the previous owner, they're around a year old both of them, it was a young boy that used to take care of them and as they told me they simply didn't have enough time to care enough for the fluffy little bastards any longer.

Was also told and showed how he'd handle them by basically grabbing the root of their tails and carrying them that way too, through all the research I've read though most people seem to agree that you need to also support their body and paws, I can't imagine it being very pleasent being dragged around by your tail.

Aynways, after I got them back to my place and got their cage set up, I let them stay in their cage to try and get used to things, and this is when things started going wrong.

Firstly, I let them out of their cage on the second day at my place, as they did not seem afraid of me, they were happy to crawl and sniff on my hands, clearly a huge mistake however, within a few minutes they found their way under my couch into small crevices and basically stayed there for an hour, needless to say it ended with me having to "chase" them a little to get them back in their cage, not very enjoyable for me or them, upon having to get them both back in their cage, Triss struggled while i held her to get her into the cage and Ciri the other one, started squealing when I held her, the heartbreaking kind of squeal.

So at this point im still pretty reluctant to let them out of their cage, this happened the 20th of march, for this one I'm just a little curious, how should I go about gaining some trust so things can get better? I do want them out and about, and I've started taking more precautions now, I'm just worried this kind of thing will happen again to sour their entire experience with being able to run around and have fun, and how long should I keep them in their cage to let them know and understand that it's their home?

Second question, I am very confused by all the things they can't be around, like their bedding, specific types of wood, and what I mean by that is, on the packages at my local animalproducts store, it usually never states what type of wood it is, all it says is organic and non-treated, this goes for both beddings and extra wooden accesories such as small wooden boards you can attack to the cage so they have something to climb on, so what am I supposed to do with it? How can I sniff out the bad stuff from the good stuff for my chins so that they don't end up with respiratory problems? Is there any markers I should look for such as specific colors or odors?

Third question, I mentioned that my one chin, Ciri, squealed when I picked her up, the 2 weeks I've had them so far she's also the least active, she can't jump as high as Triss either, is this something I should be concerned about or look into? I really wanted to delay a Vet visit for a few weeks so I don't scare them to death, but if a vet visit is recommended I will of course take them, and will just have to repair the trust later if there's a health concern for her. I'd wager the jump difference between Triss and Ciri is that Triss can probably jump up to 50cm whilst Ciri can barely do 30cm.

And final question for now, mostly pertaining to their droppings, I read it's a good way to keep track of their health, I'm just not sure if it's currently in order, their droppings are small, relatively hard and black / dark brown in color, is this a normal type or do I need to look into their diet?

Thanks for any and all responses, from the otherwise happy new owner of 2 lovely chins.

Oh uh and a few pictures here, made me think of a last thing, why is Triss sleeping ontop of her nest as opposed to inside it? that seems a bit odd to me.

[GrayRodent]

LOL. What you describe is so typical of chinchillas. Especially chins that are not very well socialized. And obviously not handled properly.

Regarding behavior:
I don't think holding them by the base of the tail without foot support causes them pain of any kind. However I think by not supporting their feet or having a place for them to grip I think it can cause them stress in most contexts. Which isn't the same as pain but that is going to seriously work against you as you try to straighten them out. It's made them averse to being picked up and handled. Which is one reason why they were screaming bloody murder when you grabbed them. That kind of response is not typical. Expect this to be a process over weeks and months but I don't think it's irresolvable. And I do agree you don't want to keep having the same bad experience each time they're out if you can avoid that. You want to establish a pattern of experience. The occasional mishap won't matter too much if you can be consistent. And unfortunately you can expect your chins will get away from you numerous times as you as you start working with them. And beleive me they are nefarious little creatures that can innovate on the fly!

However, with that being said, it's typical for chins to hide in dark places and chew baseboards, power cables (which sadly I hear of fatalities quite often from this), and stuff they shouldn't have access to. It's just not a good idea to let them roam around except in a place that's prepared for them. You can certianly transport them using a travel cage if you think that can help you.

I wouldn't start doing that anytime soon though. I think your chins need to stay in thier cage for a few weeks and just get used to you and get used to interaction through the door and through the bars of the cage. That's going to give them time to adjust to their new surroundings and owner and it will give you time to observe them and figure them out. And that's 2/3 of the battle right there, observing and learning from them. And the other 1/3 is them learning from you.

Regarding wood:
There are people all over the spectrum when it comes to saying what's safe and what's not. But for me I just go by what the old school agricultural breeders have used for years without problems yet not go off the deep end with restrictions. I would stay away from particle board or press board, board that has varnish or coatings on it, or anything that is not some kind of white pine, aspen, or similar material. If it smells stronger than white pine boards I'd say stay away from it. If it's denser it's probably not safe. If you have a specific wood in question I can tell you whether or not others have used it safely but white pine is very common. You can very easily make shelving and ledges for your cage. If you have any questions just ask.

Bedding is ususually labelled. If it says kiln dried white pine or aspen you're good. It doesn't have to be organic or anything crazy like that. Avoid paper or artificial absorbent beddings. These are bad news and are proven to be unsafe.

Regarding Health:
I wouldn't be to concerned about your chinchilla's health unless you see loose or runny droppings, lethargy (I know that's hard to describe when you don't know what normal behaviour looks like), uncoordinated walking, discharge from the eyes or nose, things like that. You can certainly take them to the vet for an exam if you'd like. They are going to be stressed no matter what but it's your call.

I can also assure you both of them can jump higher than 50cm if they really wanted to.

The droppings you describe (and photographed) look typical to me as well. Dry and brown is good. Wet and green is not. But as far as diet might I ask what you are feeding? There are some really good diets out that that are popular and there are a larger number of very poor diets should be avoided.

Hope this helps.

[Tarash]

Hey many thanks for the response I'm guessing some of it is things that get repeated quite often, so you taking your time is much appreciated!

Even since initially writing this post I've made pretty decent headway with them, especially Triss seem keen to learn and is much more contact seeking, Ciri is still a work in progress, which seems mostly to be connected to her personality or that she may have had more bad experiences, the latter is difficult to discern as i don't know enough about their previous house.

The current feed I'm giving them is this https://image.maxizoo.dk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/121750/121936.jpg , from what I've seen it's mostly pellets in it, it's leftovers from what the previous owner gave them, I have purchased another product as well http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0478/4301/products/b510988c9e277c5172b407c27745023f4e880bc8_large.jpeg?v=1476902859 that I'm going to change to once they've finished the other one.

As for treats I let them eat oats out of my hand or they get a raisin every once in a while, the oats seem to be a way better way of building a bit of trust so they don't run off the second my hand comes in contact with either of them!

I'll take your advice though and keep them caged for a while longer Should also give me ample time to make the area safer for them to run around.

I have however decided to take them to a vet just to make sure nothings ailing either of them, I thought I saw a tiny thing crawl out of their fur the other day, and I have no idea when they last had a vet visit, so figured it would be timely to get them checked out.

Again thanks so much for the response!

[GrayRodent]

Glad to oblige. That's why we're here.

Chinchillas can have widely different personalities just like cats or dogs. Considering they have not been socialized properly they may never get super friendly but you if you keep working with them they should tame down quite a bit.

I think the diets on your list are not good. You are better off feeding loose hay only than feeding those diets. I'm guessing you're in Europe where your options are more limited. Do you have access to Oxbow or Mazuri feed products there? There may be better options for you.
I recommend feeding in the meantime half in half alfalfa and timothy hay. Once you add pellets back into the diet just feed timothy hay as your loose hay.

Pelleted diets that come in mixtures are not good for chinchillas. Chinchillas will pick out the junk and leave the good parts behind, if there are any good parts left. I strongly suspect this reduces their life expectancy by less than half.

It is very unusual for chinchillas to have mites or fleas and if you are actually seeing something crawling out of their fur consider that to be highly abnormal. However the urine in the cage bedding can attract gnats and flying insects but considering the diet they were on they may not be particularly healthy. The vet should be able to tell you more.

[Tarash]

Hey, so 9 months have passed now with my girls, things are looking better for the most parts really, I rarely experience bad times with them anymore they've become more social and interested in spending time with me, also upgraded their cage this christmas to a slightly larger, cleaner and better cage for them.

Late reply though, but I did go for pure pellet food instead and ditched the old stuff I got, the american brands are not available here but looking at nutrition info on the stuff I did purchase it's practically the same as the brands you guys usually suggest.

However, they won't let me handle them, I've made massive progress in most areas, they don't freak out all the time whenever I move when they're out, and them not wanting to go back to their cage after playtime is usually the result of "scary" noises from the outside that is not within my control, so overall I'd say they trust me enough to "deal" with me, what I want to ask though is, how do you go about training them to deal with or accept that they will sometimes be held or handled for a short time, not for cuddling purposes but rather for inspections or moving? They've become quite adept at acting offended or sad when I've had to handle them, which I naturally want to change so they don't feel like they've had their private space ruined.

Also new years eve kinda sucked, I'm fairly certain I got the blame for the majority of the noise going on there

Hope this new year treats all of you chin owners well, just like I'm hoping my chins will warm up to me some more this year!

[GrayRodent]

I'm glad things are going better for you. I'm glad you've found a comparable food source.
Chinchillas are typically not cuddly animals but that can change with time and handling though each animal will be different.

Now that your pets can be handled without thinking they are being threatened I recommend actually taking them out of the cage, holding them against your chest for 10-15 seconds, then putting them back. Do this 2-3 times a day.

They'll fight you but they should not bite you. Remember when handling chinchillas try to allow them to stand on one of your hands and allow them to face your shoulder. Their natural tendency is to run up your arm. With the other hand hold firmly at the base of the tail. You can suspend the whole chinchilla from there if need to get a better grip. Make sure to stay at the very base and don't go up on the tail. Do not allow a chinchilla to flail around as it can cause itself grave injury. It's either a good hold or do not remove from the cage. Handle the chinchilla low towards the floor. Expect to have accidents because it's a learning experience for the both of you. Minimize the danger of falling and escaping ahead of time.

One thing that helped me with a really wild chinchilla was to sit in a shower stall for about 10 minutes and let the chinchilla run around and crawl on me. I would be mostly still. I did this every day and saw significant improvement, although the animal was too wild to ever make a tame pet. My other two chins didn't need that that extreme.

The theory is to establish a routine of safe handling. If they struggle and fight to get away just ignore it and hold on. Worst case is you get bit. If you have the base of the tail you can reposition your other hand to control the head from below. If you get bit do not let go. This can cause a fall and reinforce the behavior, although it is unusual behavior for most pets.

Take them out for a few seconds, then put them back in. That will not stress them too badly. Eventually the chinchilla will stop struggling and expect to be handled this way but you'll see gradual change over days and weeks. It is a proven effective method. My chins started out about 10-20 seconds at a time. Basically I held them, and put them back into the cage when they took a break from struggling. (Usually it's only after a few seconds) so they know that struggling is not going to free them. Of course mix this interaction with non-stressful interactions throughout the week.

Now my pets will actually jump onto my hand at times, especially after dust baths because that is part of their routine. They can be out over 5-10 minutes now and they don't care. It is only because they are actually handled on a regular basis.

[Tarash]

Thanks for the advice, yeah I am aware they're not cuddly, it is solely to make them adjust and accept interaction for inspection purposes or just to relocate them if they're doing something they shouldn't.

I did actually try what you wrote, but this is a while ago, they seemed pretty unhappy about that approach, so much so that the little one, Ciri, started hissing and clacking teeth at me whenever my hand got near her, they've never bitten me though, usually it's unhappy noises and in worst cases they started shedding fur. I think Ciri might be an issue though, if she gets the impression I want to pick her up she hides in their house, seeing as that's a safe space where I don't want to intrude

[Tarash]

I'm guessing I ask questions that have possibly already been answered before, so I apologize for that.

I'm curious about this handling thing, I've been doing the hold them for a short while then calmly putting them back for some days now, I don't know if it's working, the start of it though is always to get a hold of them in their chage which they are not happy about, they don't have trouble around my hand usually, they're not scared of me when outside and frequently run up to me and jump on me or just inspect whatever I might be doing, but the act of trying to pick them up or moving my hand anywhere near their back will make them panic and flee, meaning I have to basically chase them in their cage to even begin this, I've tried for quite some time to make them just approach me themselves without grabbing or anything, but they will always skip away or try to pass the hand whenever possible, from day 1 though I've made it a habbit that they need to step on my hand or arm to exit the cage for playtime to make them more accustomed to it.

I think in short what I want to know is, if I'm doing more harm than good at the moment with having to chase them for the handling training?

I do try to "bribe" them with a snack after they've been put back and they don't seem very offended, but I'd rather be sure that it's the right time to actually do this, so that I don't completely set back all the trust we've built.

[GrayRodent]

I think you're doing well. If you can hold them at all that's great. It's a process. Chinchillas are also territorial animals. They will act differently in their cage.
I have a grey chinchilla that kacks and makes a lot of noise when I put my hand in his cage, however as I approach him he will press into my hand to get scratched and rubbed, so the noise isn't as much of an indicator as what they are doing. Fleeing from your hand is not a good sign though and chasing them can cause more skittishness. If you are going in to pull your pet out then do it quickly.

Perhaps you should just try standing still with your arm in the cage for a few minutes. A tame chinchilla will usually roam around the cage and eventually become fixated on your hand. Try not to reach over them but come up and scratch their chin and chest area (not to take them out but to interact in the cage). Gauge the reaction not just the sounds they'll make.

It is going to make it harder when you let them roam around outside of the cage. For example my very tame grey chinchilla will always flee if he gets loose. He knows he'll be chased until gets corralled into a specific location that he eventually goes to. He seems to like the chase. That is not necessarily bad behavior, but normal behavior.

To build trust I recommend interacting through the door and bars of the cage on a regular basis. Once they are not afraid of your hand then proceed.

[Tarash]

Thanks I will give it a try, not entirely sure how to do with the hand but I'll just keep trying, it was quite the change in environment for them when I purchased them, they went from a family of 5 with 3 kids and lots of noise, to just me alone with no noise, they seem to always expect hells breaking loose when theres sounds around them!

[GrayRodent]

That's interesting. Maybe try introducing some background noise like a TV or radio. Music (at a soft to normal level) can have a calming effect on chinchillas by drowning out noises in their environment. Perhaps it could have a desensitizing effect.

[Tarash]

This might be a strange question, but searching online i cant find the answer. On the attached photo you can see 2 pink bags close to the chins rectum, what is that? First thought was that its testicles but both my chins have it and theyre both supposedly female

http://imgur.com/a/6X5Fxpy

[GrayRodent]

I seriously doubt this chinchilla is female. Male chinchillas do not have a scrotum per se, but flexible skin that portrudes with the testicles and epidydumus when they are active and their body temperature is higher than normal. Does the other chinchilla have the same features? If not, you probably should separate them.

[Tarash]

They both have the same, it's more apparent when it's playtime, both of them were determined female before I got them, obviously no guarantee that's right but still, would be useful to know though seeing as if they are indeed males instead then there's the whole fur ring on the penis I need to start looking for which I'm not doing now!

[GrayRodent]

I've learned from breeders that fur rings are very uncommon in pets. Breeding chinchillas need to be checked regularly, however it's something to look for if there are symptoms of it. If they're both the same sex you'll be just fine.