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[hope]

I have noticed a lot of the bigger breeders seem to sell their older breeding females on when they get to about six so they can make room.
This usually happens after the show season has finished & I was wondering if it is the same in the USA.
At what age do you generally move your older breeding females on & for what reasons?
If you have a few that are superb do you hang on to them & at what age would you retire them?
I am of course delighted as I have recently got some older breeding females from someone who does very well at the shows & I am chuffed to bits that they are now esconced in my unit

[Jo Ann]

With me, it depends not so much on the age, but, more on the health (both physically and emotionally) of the female, the health of the kits being born, etc.

Edit the above:  I did not state that right ... I was referring to taking them OUT of BREEDING, not selling.  I do not sell my breeders when they get a certain age or condition, I retire them here, with me ... I learned that lesson the hard way.

As for others I have/do know:   

Some, not all, of the "bigger breeders" (or anyone) that breeds for the money only, not for the chin, will allow a female to be over-worked (constant breed-back) during the peak breeding years of her life ... like a puppy mill, but with chinchillas. 

Other "big breeders" that do breed for quality as well as money, care about the chinchillas and the quality of them and their litters and feel it is not right to leave a female in a ranch atmosphere after a certain period of time.  They will either retire them to a smaller breeder or a non-breeder that will be able to give them more one-on-one care.

Others will 'retire' (give or find them a good home) when the female seems like she does not enjoy her kits like she did in the beginning, or if problems develop with her or her litters.  Or will 'retire' her just because she has been so good and they want her to be able to relax and enjoy the rest of her life.

Just depends on the circumstances and the breeder.

Some will sell a female that constantly produces a small number of kits in her litters (one or two only), or that only has a litter on rare occasions.  As one breeder told me ... "they either put-out or get-out".

I'll leave it on that note.   


 
Jo Ann

[ChinchillAZ]

I'm not a large scale breeder, but I don't sell my breeders just because they aren't being used for breeding.  These animals are, first and foremost, my pets. 

[chinclub]

I do sell most of my girls when I retire them, but age is usually not a factor to me.  I will retire a girl for poor breeding (slow to breed, difficult labor, bad mothering skills), bad lines (if she constantly produces chinchillas that are not of good show standard), or if she doesn't bounce back quickly after deliveries.  Some girls are just better suited to be breeders and some aren't.  If they don't seem to enjoy the whole Mommy thing I sell them as pets.  With the number of chinchillas I have (currently 100) I can't keep every chinchilla I retire and they would get more 1 on 1 attention in a new home.

Right now I am in the process of cutting my herd in half so I am also looking at who produces less kits a year and who is of lesser quality.  Those will also go.

I do have a few favorites that I will never part with, though. 

As to some breeders selling at a certain age, a lot probably depends on the growth factor. Most breeders like to keep the best chinchillas born to their herd each year to put back into breeding. In my chinchilla building I have more room than I can use so as I add new chinchillas I don't have to retire old breeders. However if I were filled to capacity I would have to retire someone to add someone new.  That may be where the 6 year old rule comes in.  As a good breeder you always want to be adding new blood, reevaluating your pairs, and culling anyone that isn't measuring up. (cull can be selling or just removing from breeding) Most breeders will reevaluate their herd once a year.  This is how you keep producing the best animals you possibly can.

[Debbie.nl.ca]

I don't like that word "cull" to most it means killing them. At least here that's what they say when they refere to the cattle & sheep.
I haven't yet, but do have a couple of females I would sell because they are not good Moms. They are kits I bred here. I could never sell their parents though.
I do have some I would never sell.
As a small hobby breeder I can afford the space, but those big ranchers would have to keep the numbers in check some how.

[Jo Ann]

Cull: to choose, select and gather; to gather choice elements from; something picked out and put aside as inferior. 

Proper term used, but it sounds to much like kill.  :-[

Strange how our mind works.

 
Jo Ann 

[hope]

Oh Chinclub I so wish I could nip round & relieve you of some of your big standard girls who produce less kits a year
I understand you have to keep the best kits you produce each year & if space is a issue you need to make room & let some of your older stock go.
I also understand all the other reasons everyone has given which would mean the chin should go to a pet only home & not be put into breeding elsewhere.

[jmrothermel]

When it is time that you move your "older girls" on and retire them from breeding, what do you do with them and their life mate?  I mean I wouldn't move my chin on (especially that they are my only two lol) but as we discussed a couple days ago chinchillas can get depressed if removed from their male/breeding partner.  So what do you do in that case if you are going to keep them?  Put them in two cages side by side?  Wouldn't that still upset them not being able to cuddle and whatnot anymore?

Jacqui

[Jo Ann]

When you breed in 'ranch runs', the females do not seem to get as attached to their mates, because their mate is not with them constantly.

    When you breed in pairs only, that is a completely different situation ... If there is a good reason to take a female out of breeding (bad mothering, not enough milk, birth defects, still borns, breedback, small or inferior kits -health wise), you need to/have to take her out of a breeding situation.   

     If she is not producing healthy kits and/or not taking care of them properly, why would you not take her out of breeding?
 
     I would much rather separate a mated pair and see them miss each other, than to have her die carrying or delivering kits that should have never been conceived ... OR ... continuing to deliver dead or unhealthy kits, putting a strain on her, both emotionally and physically. 

     It's kinda harsh to put it this way, but, would you rather see unhappy chins or dead kits and possibly a dead mom?

    With most chins, you can find new mates or cage mates for them.  When a mom needs to be retired, I don't just stick them in separate cages ... I find new cage mates for them.  For the mom, one of her own female kits stay with her.  For the dad, a new mate or a son to live with him.

    We breeders are not heartless, we love our chins ... we would have to, to change our lives/live style, to make our lives revolve around them.  We make most of our decisions by considering them first, in almost everything we do.  Small or hobby breeders do not make money off of their chins ... it is a labor of love.

    We take week-end vacations instead of week-vacations.
    We make sure they have air-conditioning in the summer heat, even if we don't, because the central air went out.  We buy a window unit and hook it up in their room, not ours.
    We take cat naps in a hard back chair for 4 straight days and nights so we can feed new born kits, when their mom does not have enough milk for them and there is not another nursing chin-mom that can care for them.
     We like to see our chins happy, but prefer necessary changes, rather than to see them dead.


Jo Ann