Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Pookahsmom]

You are right on that one Joann.  That is why we seperated pookah and gizmo from the kits at 7 weeks.  That would have been around Sept 8-13th.  However, we did not plan on Pookah coming into season so quick.  The kits were seperated about 6 days when one morning I got up and Pookah and Gizmo's cage was just trashed!  He was trying to "have his way" with her.  I quick seperated them and got Gizmo to the play area so I could get his son out of the other cage and into Gizmo'z.  Due to lack of cages, the girls stayed with their mom. However, I don't think my efforts were quick enough and we believe she is pregnant again.  aaaagh :-[  Can we put Gizmo back in with her to help with raising the kits, or have they been seperated too long for it to work?  Would the previous female kits interfere or harm the newborns if they were left with Mom?

[Jo Ann]

OK, let me see if I have this straight ...
Pooka is the adult female and the mate to Gizmo, the adult male.
When the kits belonging to them (2 girls & 1 boy) were 7 weeks old you separated them from Pooka (mom)...
Then when you put Gizmo back in with Pooka, she went in season about 6 days later ... and 
Where is everyone now?
Pooka with two female chins?  What age?
Gizmo with his son?

I would think about investing in some more cages a.s.a.p.   

Would the previous female kits interfere or harm the newborns if they were left with Mom?

This is possible ... depends on the chins: if they get jealous: and/or if they decide to fight for mom's milk.  New kits would not have a chance if an older chin jumps them ... AND ... you have to think about mom protecting the kits ... she could do harm to the other females ... in the middle of this, the kits could get trampled.  Sorry about the gloomy picture, but I'd rather paint one, than to have you see what you could see if it happens.

NOW ... let's go to the father and son sharing a cage ... when a female goes into season within smelling distance (they have a very good sense of smell), it does NOT matter if the female is their mate, their mom, their sister or their daughter ... the male's hormones get all out of whack and they will often fight, even to the death, over a female they can't even get to (regardless to the relationship to each other or to the female).  It is called survival of the fittest.

 
Jo Ann

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Their lifespan is so long you have a lot of time to work with.

Well said, no need to rush things.
Yes Pookasmom, it's time for more cages.
How many times do we go there.

Gee Jo Ann you were going for a couple of doz last time if I remember correctly.

 I was going to stop at 10 chins, then 20, now my limit is 30.

Yes if Mom is pregnant again you can put Dad back, but I would wait another week or so, just to make sure.
As this would be a breed back load her up with extra calcium and vit's.
The kits could get hurt by Dad chasing and mating Mom, so I'd leave the girls with Mom, and if I had to take the two boys [Dad&Son}to another room until you got more cages, sell the kits, or are ready to put Dad back with Mom.
The two daughters can stay in one cage, but the son will need his own.
Remember kits don't need a very big cage, a nice size carrier with a house in it will do fine.
I like to graduate my kits from smaller cages, so they don't get hurt, and they get used to being on their own.

[Jo Ann]

Gee Jo Ann you were going for a couple of doz last time if I remember correctly.

 I'm missing something here ... 

Unless you are talking about the cages I just got (2 dozen cages and 4 dozen trays.    

 
Jo Ann

[Pookahsmom]

  Confusion confusion!  lol.  ¥es, Popokah is still in the birthing cage with her daughters who are now 5 months old.  Her son is in with Gizmo (dad) and they are a perfect mirror of each other.  He got all his daddy's best qualities; mellow, laid back, and a sweet heart.  No fur flying.  The son is also 5 months old.  Though he has tried to "have his way with dad", Gizmo has been patient so far and has been a trooper.  Before his son was placed in the cage with him, when he was alone, he was on te portly side and didn't do too much.  Now, he is te most active, alert and healthy I have seen him since his and Pook's "marriage".  We will be calling and ordering another cage this week.  Our last one was from Quality Cages and we really liked it.

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Unless you are talking about the cages I just got (2 dozen cages and 4 dozen trays.

Yes Jo Ann that's what I was referring too, splitting up the males and needing more cages.
I always have to have a few empties for that Dads when Mom delivers.
You can never have to many.

Pookahsmom,
If Dad seems better with the son in the cage with him, just keep a close eye, and I would make sure they were no where near the girls when the next heat comes.
Jo Ann posted a nasty picture of what could happen on another thread, maybe it's in her album?
It does get worse the more chins you have, I've found.
When I had just the one family of chins, my grays, they all seemed to get along fine.
The more I added , the more Territorial they all became.
I'd hate for you to find the little guy beaten up by his Dad, but you know your chins best.
With just a small number you should have a better chance of seeing changes and signs of aggression.
Good luck, and be careful.

[Jo Ann]

Hi Debbie,
   That's one picture I won't put in the album ... I don't want to    anyone that is not expecting to see it. It is a picture of the son ... he and his father had been housed together for about 9 months, with no sign of fighting ... but once the son matured enough to make the father feel threatened in a breeding situation, the father attacked the son.  Neither the father or son could get to the female in season, but they still fought over her.   The son has since healed ,and the fur has grown back.     I was lucky, that time, and will not put males together any more.
   I did find where I posted a link to it.   Warning!  It is graphic!
   If you are squeamish do not look, but for those who need to know what might/can happen when two males are left together ... sometimes this can happen ... www.luvnchins.com/ResultsFatherSonFemaleInSeason.jpg  Sometimes it is worse, one will kill the other, or even worse, you loose both due to the injuries inflected by the other.     Do NOT take the chance if you can not easily live with the out come.

 
Jo Ann

[Pookahsmom]

Hi Deb and Joann a big thank you to both of you for your kindness, patience, understanding, concern and advice.  The points are seriously well taken to heart.  We ordered a new cage yesterday and it should arrive in about 2weeks.  We figured out her due date according to the breeding calendar and she should be right around the New Years.   Pookah will remain in her cage she is in and girls will get the new one.  Not sure what we will do with Gizmo yet as I have read that he will help with the delivery by helping to keep them warm and with clean up.  He was great for that the last time. When the cage arrives I think we will be setting it up in another bedroom so that the girls and pookah can have some privacy.  The boys will stay in the dining room. 
As for Pookah, all of the chins have been receiving sun drops vitamins, she gets her daily raisins, they have cuttlebones in the cages to chew and they get a mix of alfalfa (small handful) and timothy hay.  Is there anything else we can be giving her to help her out??
We never intended to breed her back right away. If we knew then what we know now well... things would be different.  I feel bad for her but there is nothing that can be done but to learn from the experience and NOT let it happen this next time around.  We hope she doesn't have 3 again but she is starting to get fairly round.   :-[

[Stacy]

With the vitamins make sure you check the exp. date. I was going to get some from a pet store one time and they expired 2 yrs ago.

[Jo Ann]

  Though he has tried to "have his way with dad", Gizmo has been patient so far and has been a trooper.

     When a male does that to another male or a female to a female, it's not a sexual thing ... it's trying to see who is going to be the dominate one/the alpha chin in the cage.  The will also do it by fussing and going nose to nose.

I'll never forget when little Timmy, a five-week-old black velvet kit, decided he was going the be the "boss". 
He fussed at his daddy, Storm, and Storm gave him a firm sounding chirp back. 
Timmy sounded back, then Storm again. 
The next time Timmy went nose to nose with Storm, and they exchanged chirps.
Then Timmy stood upright to his daddy and chirped again ...
 Storm's response was to raise up a little and do the same, then ...
Timmy stood on his tiptoes and chirped again ...
Storm stood completely upright and chirped firmly ...
Timmy ran to his momma for safety.   

About the vitamins, keep in mind ... if you add vitamins to the water, you have no way of knowing how much they are actually getting (especially if there is more than one in the cage).  Also, exposing vitamins to the light weakens the strength.  I use a child's vitamin C (no sugar added) tablet as a treat.

Papaya and rose hips are also a good source of vitamins for chins, and hay for the nutrients.

Pookah will remain in her cage she is in and girls will get the new one.

Keep in mind that the girls could possibly hurt the new kit/kits.  I have had a kit accept a foster kit and keep it warm, when even the adults would not accept it.  (A Special Pair at: http://www.luvnchins.com/ASpecialPair.html ) But, I have more recently had an older sibling take out the eye of a new kit.  You don't know which way it will go till it happens.

they have cuttlebones in the cages to chew and they get a mix of alfalfa (small handful) and timothy hay.  Is there anything else we can be giving her to help her out??

Cuttlebones are great, always make sure you remove the holder (it's made of aluminum and they will often eat it), you might want to break it in pieces and ration it to them if you find it is getting dirty or sprayed with urine.   

They need hay in with them at all times ... it gives them nutrients, vitamins and fiber.  When a chinchilla is sick, often a vet will take all food away and give them water and hay only ... to get their systems back where it needs to be.  I always give alfalfa hay to my pregnant and nursing moms for this reason.

Don't worry about the mistake, we all make them ...
as long as we learn from our mistakes, then a mistake is acceptable ...
it's when we don't learn and we repeat it, that is not acceptable.

 
Jo Ann

[Pookahsmom]

Oh rest assured, the girls will be in their own cage when it arrives and before Mom gives birth.  They will be seperated.  They all get as much hay as can fit in a manger and there is always leftovers which we remove to keep fresh.  They do get a small handful though of the alfalfa everyday for extra roughage and is better quality.  We are going to SLOWLY change them over to horse hay as I have read that it would be better than the Oxbow we have been getting.  There are no pesticides, is home grown, and is a mix of Timothy, Orchard grass and alfalfa. 
 

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Don't worry about the mistake, we all make them ...
as long as we learn from our mistakes, then a mistake is acceptable ...
it's when we don't learn and we repeat it, that is not acceptable.

Sometimes your words give me goose bumps Jo Ann
If I only had a dollar.......


Isn't it all just so much fun though Pookasmom. One breed back shouldn't hurt, but like you I'd like to see her with a single this time. If she's keen on triplets she'll be glad for your help I'm sure
New years babies, I can't wait to hear, and am sure all will be fine.
Your chins seem to be in great hands.
Thanks for sharing, and the compliment

[Pookahsmom]

Well, yesterday we tried to put Gizmo in with Pookah to see what she would do while they were out to play.  There was quite a bit of toe to toe standing and at one point Pook chased him and possiboy nipped.  Fur flew.  No injuries though thank goodness.  Poor Gizmo sat and pouted behing the commode.....poor guy's feelings must be hurt.  Guess we kept them seperated too loong.  Will maybe attempt again in a few days.

[Pookahsmom]

  Well, the cage has arrived and Pookah is now on her own.  We tried again to put Gizmo back in with her (more towards morning) and she immediately went after him again.  Not just once mind you but she was persistant.  I guess thy have been apart for too long.  We seperated the kits back on Sept7 and then we saw Gizmo and Pook doing "the deed."  This happened on Sept 13 and the 2 have been seperated since then.  According to the gestation calendar, she is going to be due between Dec 27th and Jan1st. 
   I thought Chins mated for life??

[Debbie.nl.ca]

I thought Chins mated for life

They probebely do but that doesn't mean with each other.
Many chins have many mates in their life time.
In a ranch set up, you could have one male servicing many females that keep coming and going.
Some I guess you could, but they too can pee each other off.
It could be the time apart, maybe she blames him for someting. They never foreget.
Minds of their own.