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[wonton]

Can someone please tell me what went wrong here. I think my beige female went into labor (nipples present and heavy breathing)  sometime yesterday afternoon (found her on her side around 4pm) .  I carefully moved her from the cage she was in with 4 males to a cage that I could watch downstairs where I was. After moving her, she spent about 2 hours  moving from one spot in the cage to another trying to get comfortable. After several hours she finally just found a spot and stayed there (on her side) I could see that her stomach was contracting but after a couple of hours they pretty much stopped. Within mins of it stopping, she was dead.  I searched online for all information about labor to see if I needed to do anything for her (while she was alive. I never thought she was going to die). But I couldnt find anything that would alarm me that what she was doing was wrong.
This chin originally belonged to a lady within the city I live in and I have had her and the other 4 for less than 1 month. This lady was given 3 chins from her friend and at some point, Those chins had babies and she kept them ALL together(a total of 6 now)in one cage. She told me that she woke up one morning and found one of the 6 dead in the cage and assumed it was the mother. She insisted that the remaining 5 were all males, I kept telling her that 1 was a female who I suspected was pregnant (the one that died last night on me) and she insisted otherwise (someone who has no knowledge of chins apparently) My thoughts here is that this female mated with either a brother or her father causing problems. Could this be the case? If not, Pls tell me why she died and what I could have done or did wrong.  I have a standard grey that has has 2 litters (while I was asleep) and is still alive and healthy.  I have had the standard chins for several years and know alot about chins with the exemption  of the labor and death part. Did my moving her cause a problem? Should I have tried to remove the 4 males instead? PLEASE HELP ME! I am very sad by her death and want to know what to do in the event this happens to me again.  Thanks

[Jo Ann]

Hi Wonton,
   
  First the chins came from a bad situation.    One you had no control over.  I don't know how old the female momma-to-be was, but most likely, she was to young to be having kits.    A female chin has the ability to get pregnant at 3 1/2 to 4 months of age, but is much to young and to small to be carrying and delivering them.  A female chin needs to be a year old and at least 500 grams before she is put into breeding (placed with a male).

  Her problem could stem from several different things... 
(1) She was to young and to small (her birth canal was not big enough) to allow the kits to be delivered/pass through.
(2) She could have had a bad heart and it was to much for her.
(3) She could have been pregnant before and the kit/kits could have died inside her.  Usually they can absorb a small kit, but if it was a full size kit, the bones and part of it may not have been absorbed and was blocking the birth canal.
(4) There could have been a breach kit or conjoined kits that were to big or placed wrong and could not be delivered naturally.
(5) With any of the above, she most likely could not deliver normally for some reason, with the labor, the strain and all her body could not take it and she died.
   These are only a few of the reasons.
   The only way for you to have been able to do something for her before she died would have been to have her with a vet before, at the start of or shortly after the labor started. 
   If you had left her with the males, she would have been under even more stress, it was best that you removed her and took her to where you could watch her.
   Did you ever see any signs of water breaking (wet fur) or bleeding?
   When a female is in labor, she will usually flatten out in the bottom of the cage during the early stages.  Then she will sometimes move from flat out on her belly to on her side ... this is not a good sign in itself.  Chins usually deliver standing up right.   When she is in labor and is moving from place to place, normally she is trying to start the delivery of the kits ... if this is happening and she does not deliver the first kit within 15 minutes of showing signs she is straining or pushing/pulling at the bars or a fixed object inside the cage (this often looks almost like she is exercising) ... she needs a vet a.s.a.p. she is in trouble usually and will need help.
   You did what you thought was best (which was to move her away from the males and where you could watch her ... this was the right thing to do), unfortunately, you did not see your other chin's deliveries and you did not know the other signs of the problems she was having ... most people would not know, unless they have been breeding for some time and/or have the same thing happen to them. 
    I would like to thank-you for sharing this with us ... you have lost your chin and her kits, but she has not died in vain ... this may save another chin and chin owner the sorrow you are going through. 
   Our thoughts and prayers are with you.  She is in chinnie heaven playing with her kits and all those who have gone before them. 

 
Jo Ann

[wonton]

Thanks SO VERY much for giving me the answers I was searching for. It is such a sad experience that I hope to never go through again and hope that noone ever  has  to experience.  I plan to bury her in my backyard this evening so that she will never be forgotten.
As far as her being to small, that wasn't the case. The entire herd that I got from this lady are all over feed with junk food and are very large! She gave them so much junk food that they just do not want or like to eat pellets. One is so large it takes BOTH hands to pick him up! I know that this is way to large for a chin and have limited his number of treats so that he is forced to eat his pellets. I really want to get the remaining 4 healthy so if anyone has other suggestions, pls let me know. 
 

[wonton]

Oh. As far as blood, I never saw any and only saw a very small wet area.

[chinclub]

Keep in mind that fat doesn't mean big.  The problem comes when the pelvic bones have not grown wide enough to allow a baby to pass.  This will only come with age.

Another problem could be that she was just not healthy enough to make it though delivery. From what you said about their diet they are very unhealthy and their life expectancy is not going to be that of healthy chinchillas.

 I would suggest picking a chinchilla food that is just pellets.  Mazuri is the only pet store chinchilla feed that I would recommend.  Tradition and the Kline Diet are both great foods if you want to ship some in.  Do not give them anything but these good pellets, all the hay they can eat, and one raisin a day.  Please don't give them junk food.  A fat chinchilla is not a happy or healthy chinchilla and will not live as long.  Too many treats, bad treats, and unsafe foods such a pet grade corn can cause all sorts of problems and can eventually damage the organs.

[Jo Ann]

Hi Wonton,

   Chinchillas need only one treat a day (two if they are thin). You can't take everything away all at one time ... that will throw their systems into shock.  If you have any of the food/treats left this lady may have given you when you got the chins, I would start by removing most of the treats from the food they are eating and start mixing the food they had with a good well known brand like Manzuri, Traditions, Oxbow, or Kline Chinchilla Diet, until you get them strictly on the good chinchilla feed, hay and water.   

    I know you have already taken away most of their junk food, so this not for you, but is for anyone else that does not already know ...
      The Deluxe mixes, just like the fancy huts and colored wooden chew blocks, are for appealing to the human's eye, chinchillas could care less (except for all the extra treats they are getting that are bad for them).    Just the word "Deluxe" inferrs it is the best ... not necessarily so, usually not so.    Most advertising/promoting a product for a pet appeals to the human eye and mind-set that they are giving their chin something 'special', but this is not necessarily so for the health of the chinchilla.  They let you assume it is good for your chinchilla by using words/pictures that are appealing to you.  :-[

    Very little is known about the chinchilla, as compaired to domestic animals, and many of the producers of food for chinchillas have not done the research needed to give them what they really need to be healthy, but only what appeals to the human buying it.  This is very unfortunate for the chinchilla. 

    If you notice, many products that are and have been sold for small animals (gerbils, Guena pigs, hamsters, ect.) have added chinchillas to their list, that it is ok to feed or give to them, without changing any of the ingredients.  Many times it is not only not good for your chin, but could cause major health problems for them.     As Jamie said pet grade corn is bad for chinchillas, yet you will find corn listed on most of the ingredients on many of these products ... even corn treats advertised for specifically for chinchillas.

    Added sugar, added salt and preservatives are bad for your chin.  Nuts contain an oil the chinchilla's body can not properly digest, resulting, eventually in a fatty liver that can cause death.  Please, read the contents, do the research  buy/get what is best for your chinchilla, not just what  "looks" good to you.

   OK ... off my soap box for now.   

 
Jo Ann

[Jo Ann]

  Hi Wonton,

   Sorry, I did it again ... started typing and got off on a different subject.

   I intended to reply to "only saw a very small wet area" ... The wet area is most likely where her water broke on the first kit's sack.  This was telling you she is trying to deliver a kit, but the kit can not come out for some reason.     But, like I said before ... you did all you knew to do at the time.

 
Jo Ann

[wonton]

I have all of my chins on Mazuri and they get 1 or 2 raisins a day plus Hay. I do not give them any other treats since this is what they are used to and they enjoy it a great deal.  All of  my other chins are healthy, happy and active. (I have 5 plus the ladies 4)

The lady who owned the 4 males and the dead female gave them stuff (cr@p excuse my language) like Pizza crest, breads, cookies or whatever. I'm honestly surprised that they have lived this long after eating like that with her. The actually non people food that she gave them was guinea pig food from walmart with the mixture of bananas or something. You know the cheap stuff, not just pellets. Since they have been with me, I was mixing my mazuri with very little of her stuff and then totally switched to mazuri once they were eating it. I did this to avoid problems with their digestive systems.  They now get Mazuri, hay and 1 raisin each. Thats it.  The longer they are in my household, the more active they have become which is a good sign but I also know it will take awhile before they are truly healthy providing her "care" did not do to much damage.

On a much happier note. My standard grey had 1 kit this morning. Both seem happy and the kit is very active already. This is my standards 3rd litter which she keeps having while I am sleeping. haha

[Jo Ann]

Congratulations on the new kit!  Glad to hear mom and kit are doing good.  Maybe this mom likes her privacy when she has her kits.    

   Most of my moms deliver in the mornings, but we've gotten up to a few surprises, also. 

   Sounds like you are doing what these chins really need and now they should get healthier, but, most likely, some of the things they were given before you got them may still have some long-term affects on them.   

The lady ... gave them stuff like ... Pizza crest, breads, cookies or whatever

   Processed human food was never meant for chinchillas ... some people just don't think beyond their pocketbooks.        That's a really sore point for me ... I have people that e-mail me and start out with "what's the cheapest chin you have" ... I just reply, I don't have any cheap chins.  If someone wants a cheap chin, most likely, they do not have the money to properly care for it and they don't need it, or deserve it.  Oops ... there I go again ... gotta get off my soap box before I get started again.   

 
Jo Ann [/i]