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[chinclub]

A little more on genes.  There are a bunch of types ( Recessives, Dominate, Accumulative)

 Heterozygous  When two gene pairs are different. Only one of the genes, the dominant one, is fully 
      expressed, but that chin is still capable of passing on the recessive gene to its offspring.

   Homozygous  When two gene pairs are a match. This animal has a gene pair for a trait that expresses
     them the same. This chinchilla possess 2 dominant or 2 recessive genes.

Accumulative genes depend on generations of breeding. As more and more of the proper genes are collected within the offspring, they become darker.

However stay away from mutation to mutation breeding for repeat generations as the babies get smaller and fur quality lessens.

[Billydkd]

As for the kit i would  tell that it has ebony in it, Light, Med, Dark,what ever one it is with  Ebony, White.  you said its dark i would say dark ebony white.   As some don't like ebony in the line at all.

[QTPie61282]

Ok.  Im starting to look out of the box.  So with the given shades, light medium and dark, a Heterozygous can look exactly the same as a Homo?  I guess Im still stuck on the phenotypes and genotypes and that an Ebony has to have a genotype that either has two same genes or two different genes.  I realize that it doesnt matter because the color will come out, light medium or dark either way.  But isnt important to know whether the genes are both ebony, or ebony and standard mix?  what am i confused on???  help me, pull me out of the box.
I have two medium ebonies.  To me I always thought this meant they were hetero.  but it doesnt matter anymore, they could have any gene and just be medium ebony?  i just feel like knowing the genotypes is important. Like knowing that your beige is Homo or Hetero. The hetero is darker, just like I always assumed the solid black ebony was homo. 
I guess I need why the genes dont matter with ebonies anymore.  for the show I understand, but I would want to know, for breeding sakes.

[chinclub]

In my experience within my own herd any chinchilla that has ANY ebony in it is capable of producing a dark ebony baby.  I have a regular standard (with no ebony in her background) bred to a tan male.  Don't let the presence of the beige gene in the Tan confuse you the Ebony gene is still the same.

Those two just produced a very dark (what you are calling a HOMO) ebony.  Here are pictures of Dad and Baby.  Please excuse his appearance.  I just got home from a week long vacation and he is overdue for his dust bath.

I have found that breeding with a darker ebony helps to ensure that you produce more darker babies than lighter babies.  I try not to breed ebony to ebony because I believe in keeping the standard lines to strengthen the baby quality.  So I would bred an ebony to a standard breed those babies back to an ebony breed those babies to a standard, etc....

[chinclub]

Here is standard Mom, looking horrible waiting for her 10 days to be over so she can have her first bath after giving birth.

[chinclub]

So back to your question...that black baby would have received an Ebony gene from dad and standard gene from mom.  So it only takes 1 ebony gene to get a solid black baby.  That baby could then be bred back to a standard and, in my experience, could possibly produce babies that look like it does.  I do choose my darkest standards to breed to my ebonies and save my lighter standards to breed to beige and whites.  This will help you in achieving the colors you want.

[Jo Ann]

Looks like you all have been having fun with the ebony "wild card" chinchillas, while I have stayed mostly off line for a few days.   

Little stinkers, aren't they?    
Like the black sheep of the family, it shows up when least needed!  
OR, if you are lucky, when they are most needed.   

The Tasco Ebony, Busse Charcoal and others are covered in chapter 8 of  "Basic Genetics and History of Mutation Chinchillas" compiled by Alice Kline, makes great reading.  She sure liked to have books with long titles.   

  BTW ... at that time they were still referred to as homo and hetero.  I'm not about to argue with the lady.     She probably knew more than all of us put together.   

   And yes, NOW, they refer to the different shades of the ebonies as light, medium, dark and extra dark at the shows.  So, if that is     or    for anyone we can just have a good 

But, I do believe, the reason for the change to light, medium, dark and extra dark could have been made due to additional research and/or some remarks I would hear in arguments "It's not a 'homo' unless it has 4 - 8 - 16 (or whatever number) of generations of producing ONLY the jet black color all over."  Of course, you hear so much, you kinda just let it leave in a haze after a while.   


 
Jo Ann

[QTPie61282]

Thanks for the refresh on the genes, but Im pretty informed on genetics.  Many classes in college and what not.

However, over the years I have just picked up on Homo ebonies being all black, and hetero being black with gray bellies.  I just dont know how it switched from that to shades.  If it was homo or hetero, ebony shows the gene almost all the time in the kits anyway so why did they change it from genotypes to shade classification?

So Two Solid black ebonies could produce very light ebonies? almost standard lookin but with light gray bellies?  And two very light ebonies could make a solid black ebony?  Is this what everyone is trying to say? 

[chinclub]

What we are saying is: It only takes one ebony gene to get a solid black baby.


Its not very common to get light ebonies from two dark parents, but like I showed you above it only takes one ebony parent to get a solid black baby and that parent doesn't have to be a dark ebony.  This is why we no longer use Homo and Hetero.  With beige chinchillas you must have two beige parents to get a homo beige baby.  (very light pink in color with a blue ring in the eye)  You can not get it any other way.  Ebony is not that way.

[QTPie61282]

I finally think I am starting to get it.  After all the years of noticing that light babies have been coming out from dark parents and vice versa, almost falsified the Homo and Hetero idea.
OK.  I understand. 
Im just so used to using genes for everything and figuring out what kits can come from what parents.
I dont have much experience with ebonies.  I have two medium ebonies right now, who I will be pairing in the next few months.  It would be kind of cool if they had a solid baby.  Then I would be able to see it with my own eyes.

Thanks everyone, though I have been difficult and confused and closed in a box, I think I finally get it.
Im just stuck in the punnet square that they burned into our heads in school.

[chinclub]

We are all always learning new things.  Thats half the fun of breeding. 

[QTPie61282]

You are so right.  I cant seem to keep up with the changes.  But as long as I have all of you!!!  I should be ok.