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[jmrothermel]

Okay, I know we all started somewhere.  In fact I haven't been into breeding mutes for too long, standards for some time before that.  But where do all the new breeders keep coming from and why?    Most of the time the answer I hear is to have babies, their sister, aunt, cousin, or whatever wants one, but whats going to happen to all these baby chins?  What happens when there are no more homes for these kits?  Or what happens when a whole bunch of kits maloccludes because these new "breeders" use bad stock?

I know some people may have different views on the subject, and of course there is going to be new breeders, thats how we keep bettering the species.  But what about those who are just in it for cuteness and money?

I don't know, maybe I'm just thinking a rant to myself and shouldn't even hit Post to this, but does anyone else feel this way?  Or am I just overly paranoid?   It seems like everyone is a chinchilla "breeder" these days.........

[Abby W.]

I agree there are some people out there who seem to be "all about the money", which to me, is ridiculous.  I can honestly say I have spent waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy  more than I have made on my chins overall.  But I think most of the new breeders, myself included (I have been breeding for about 18 months-2 years now) are doing because we love the animals.  I would also agree though there are a lot of people out there, breeders and pet owners alike, who are completely uneducated about these animals.  They think chins are just like rabbits and treat them accordingly, then are surprised when the animal gets sick!  I think the lack of education is a much bigger problem than anything else.  Just my opinion, though.   

[Asikovsek]

I honestly think that you should have to get certified to own or breed exotic animals...because chins are considered exotic animals...I cant just go out and buy a Lion or a Tiger...you have to be certified to have one or treat one medically...so what makes chins any different....and you 2 are right there really isnt any money to be made in breeding chins...they basically pay for themselves...they are not cheap to take care of properly....and there is a million and one medical problems chins can come up with...and most of us always have a vet on call...lol...and as we all know vet bills are far from cheap

[QTPie61282]

Thats a good idea!  Breeders of exotics,  or IMO any breeder for that matter must have a license or something.
I just started breeding a year ago and I never wanted to do it for the money.  There is no money.  Anyone who thinks starting their own breeding business out of their basement to make some cold hard cash is just completely ignorant.

I have purchased all my chins that I breed from other legit and accomplished breeders, and make sure I am pairing them with the right mate.  Some of them are from Ritterspach. 
Any breeder should have a license.  We have so many interbred Pits and other mixed breed dogs that come into the hospital with all sorts of health problems, and end up having to be put down, and they run out and get more.  The city "breeders" think they are in it for the money and if they can get brothers and sisters to breed, then they wont have to spend more money on more dogs or health papers or vaccines, and they make money off it.

It is just aweful and I wish I could get my hands on those people and just ring their necks.
Granted Ive only been breeding for a year, but I am very careful with what I breed, the mutes that I start with, which standards I will use to improve on the herd, ect. 
But I know what you guys are talking about, Ive talked to some people through email who have contacted me for info on how to breed, and that they want to buy one of my chins to breed with the one they have at home.
"He has no papers but he is really healthy and really cute.  he would make really cute babies!".  Heard it all before, no thanks.  I decline people from buying my chins when they tell me that.  It will only aid in the increase population of poor quality chins, and I dont want to be someone who helped make that happen.  Sorry Charlie.

[Asikovsek]

exactly....we have to keep our earned pedigrees in tip top shape....we dont buy the best and breed the best to give our best to another chin that could have bad genes that would mean a waste of time for us!!!...and I think if you breed high quality you should be registered with the mutations org or empress...because that shows that you are very dedicated in producing the best breeds possible....

[Jo Ann]

  I am setting back reading all the comments and loving it!   

   Now, we need to do something about it.  One of the ways is by guiding people where they can see "the other side of breeding" vented.   Here is one of the places it really started getting out in the pet world ... all the information (both good and bad) full-force in the world of possible future responsible breeders and responsible pet owners. 

    Breeders that are in it (or get in it)  "for the money" or for "prestige" will never let those possible/buying customers, (who buy as pet owners or as future breeders) know that there is a "down side" to breeding ... not only for the chinchillas, but for the breeders and everyone these precious little creatures go to live with.  They want everyone to think their animals are perfect ... everyone of them ... and wouldn't dare admit to having a sick animal once-in-a-while ... OR how much it cost to get that sick animal well, or to care for it properly the rest of it's natural life, regardless of the cost ... as long as it can have a fairly comfortable quality of life and enjoy it.  Nor do they tell them how much more expensive exotic pet vets are and how few of the exotic let alone any regular vets know how to care for one of the 'newest' pets in the pet world.  I tell those who want to adopt a chin from me, they first must find an exotic pet vet in their area that is familiar with chinchilla care or one who is willing to learn, before I will let one of my little ones go home with them.

      It is a breeders responsibility to teach (as in being a mentor, not a tyrant) new/prospective owners/breeders what proper chinchilla care is all about.

     Everyone knows all the love and pleasure they get from their chinchillas and this is the 'side' we like to show everyone ... BUT ... by doing so, we are painting pictures of beautiful roses without thorns.   

   We need to show them vet bills, pictures of chinchillas that have been in a fight, tell them the stories of malocclusion and what happens to the chin ... the pain, the dehydration and starvation a chinchilla with malocclusion goes through before it finally dies.  (If you need any pictures or examples, just let me know ... I have plenty.)  The stories of setting up day and night (I've sit and slept in an office chair with my feet propped up in another one, getting 15 or 20 minute naps for 5 days and 4 nights straight ... quick showers and going no where, but the kitchen, bathroom and chin room) to care for kits whose mom has died or who does not have enough milk for all her kits.  We have 2 or 3 day mini vacations ... usually to a chin show ... or a quick trip to the beach.  If someone is not willing to do these things, they do not need to be breeding chinchillas!  My main site is kid-friendly, my second site, the medical side of breeding, is not kid friendly nor for the squeamish.  You will see many of examples of the 'other side' of breeding in the back issues of the Chinchilla Club Magazine ... those are still available for purchase from the chinchilla club ... many times, a picture or a story in print can open a "I'm thinking about going into breeding" person's eyes to the real thing.  These magazines are good to have on hand to show 'prospective breeders'.  Make sure they see where they are leaping to, before they leap.   

    A  breeders' responsibility stops when his/her last chinchilla takes it's last breath ... no matter who it may be living with.   This is my opine, I hope it is also many of yours.

    I use to think everyone should be able to enjoy the birth and life of a kit, because of the special feelings of joy it can give you ... no matter how many births you witness ... each is as special as the first.  Of course, those were my thoughts were BEFORE I saw how irresponsible so many breeders/owners could be ... I was a dummy, I thought they would all feel like I do, and learn, and be responsible.  Boy did I get my bubble burst! 

    You know, many of us can not understand why the big ranchers don't like us (as a group).  Because we are taking 'their business'?  Not hardly ... the 5 to 50+ kits we have born each year, shrink to nothing when compaired to breeders that breed and sell hundreds and even thousands of chinchillas every year and have been doing so for more years than many of us have been alive (excluding me, I'm old as dirt).

   When you sit with them (ole timers, ranchers and long-time breeders) and talk with them, and learn from them, what has taken them 25 to 50 years to learn ... you find they have no 'taste' for the 'new breeders' because they (the new breeders) usually, as a rule, breed indiscriminately, feed their animals the wrong food, house them improperly.   The older, established breeders are seeing their life's work being bred and in-bred like a bunch of rats.  Most "new breeders" have no real idea of the domino-effect on future generations of all chinchillas by what they are doing, without the knowledge needed to do it properly.  It is our responsibility to continually learn and continually teach ... if we do not ... we do not need to be breeding chinchillas.


    OK, I'll quit ranting, raving and venting for now ... I'm out of breath. 

Later! 
   Jo Ann 

[Summer]

I still consider my self new, because I feel that I still have lots of learning left. I will always be learning. Every one Say's you must make a lot money breedind chinchills. I tell them no, If I am lucky that I might break even. Yesterday I just put to sleep a another one of the rescues because he had malocclusion. I haven at the vet's for the last two weeks doing every thing I could for this chin and in the end nothing could be done but to end his pain. I just wanted to add my voice and That I agree with what every one is  saying. 

[Asikovsek]

Many people dont realize that chinchillas are exotic animals they are not your basic little furry bunny or guinea pig....they require a lot of proper care and attention. They are far from being a "childrens" pet.....I never advice anyone buying a chin for a child and have turned down many people because they didnt understand that chinchillas are A LOT of responsibility and expensive animals...more expensive than cats or dogs....and they arnt always lap buddies like children like their animals to be and can be injured easily...they are an exotic animal and taking mine to the vet when needed has usually cost me more then my cats or dogs anyday because exotic vets themselves are more expensive...Chins can bring joy to anyone and thats what keeps us breeders going...the cute little looks on their face....or their happy noises they make when satisfied...thats what keeps me going and knowing that its worth it....because my chins are always there for me to listen and never judge like most friends...lol...they are always ready to have some company!! even if you wake them up on accident in the middle of the day....and they are awsome late night buddies...Ayra and I watch our favorite tv shows on the couch everynight....she sits well behaved in a cage pan on the couch with me because we all know how chins constantly poop..lol...and she enjoys her hay and i usually enjoy a salad...lol...I wouldnt trade that for the world... ..Chins have been my influence to go to college and keep continueing to become a vet and I am specializing in exotic animals but I want to be mainly a chinchilla vet there are not many vets that focus on chinchillas and I want to beable to have anyone come to me with a problem and I will know exactly how to take care of it...not have to open up a reference book or play the guessing game...i have ran into many vets like that and i have grabbed my chin on many occations and walked right out they are my children ..so after the end of the day after all the feedings and weighing and cage cleanings we all have our little companions and their sweet little babies..who will be groomed to be just as great as their parents...thats what makes the time put in to being a breeder worth it...

[chinclub]

Don't be too hard on the vets.  Chinchillas are still very new as pets.  There are some really bad ones out there who won't tell you they don't know- but I have no problem with a vet who comes right out and says he doesn't know but is willing to learn.  Unless things have changed they don't teach vets about chinchillas in school.

When we lived in Conway and needed a vet we found a young vet who was just out of school.  When I called he came right out and said he didn't know about chinchillas but was very interested in them and willing to learn.  I gave him my copy of Alice Kline's After 40 Years which has a large section on chinchilla illness and meds.  Then he did other research on him own.  We were still pretty new to chinchillas at the time so we learned together.  He turned out to be the best vet I every had.  I missed him terribly when we moved.

Many vets around the US (and the world for the matter since we are an international forum)  will not know about chinchillas.  Don't write them off so fast.  Thanks to research done by the MCBA  and California Chinchillas, and large ranchers vets are now able to get access to chinchilla information to learn how to treat them.  A good vet that is interested in learning can be a great vet even if he is new to chinchillas.  Just ask questions and talk with him or her.

The key is to find your vet before you need him so he can be prepared when an emergency arises.

[Jo Ann]

Many vets around the US (and the world for the matter since we are an international forum)  will not know about chinchillas.  Don't write them off so fast.  Thanks to research done by the MCBA  and California Chinchillas, and large ranchers vets are now able to get access to chinchilla information to learn how to treat them.  A good vet that is interested in learning can be a great vet even if he is new to chinchillas.  Just ask questions and talk with him or her.

The key is to find your vet before you need him so he can be prepared when an emergency arises.

How true!  My first exotic pet vet knew a little about chinchillas, but was willing to learn more.  There is a vet forum associated with California Chins' research center.  Dr. Vanessa spent many long hours on it to learn about the chinchillas.  Plus she got the Alice Kline's After 40 Years ... The Joy of chinchillas and the Rancher's Handbook.  The first two are still in publication, but I don't think the 3rd one is.  I cried when Dr. Vanessa moved to Florida.  We now have a new vet and his group is learning about chinchillas. 

My visits to the vet are rare, even with 209 chinchillas, but when I need one, I know before hand, that my vet is up on the latest things. 

When you are shopping for a good exotic pet vet ... take your little one in before he/she gets sick ... for a wellness visit.  That wellness visit may very well let you know for sure if your vet is familiar with chinchillas or not.   

Play dumb, ask simple questions, ones even the beginner chin owner knows, like: "I've heard chins can have 4 or 5 kits in a single litter.  How in the world can that many chins grow in the same womb?" 
If he/she does not tell you, "They have two wombs and can be pregnant in both at the same time ... then he/she does not know as much as they have said when you called. 
Or, "What can I do about my chin's teeth?  They are awful yellow."  The responce should be "That is normal, the yellow color of a chinchilla's teeth, show he/she has enough calcium in his/her diet.  If they were white, that would mean the chin does not have enough calcium."   Make sure they are holding/handling the chin properly. 
If you do not get answers like these ... get to the next vet in line, with a wellness visit, until you are happy with the vet you have chosen for your little one.  This is your responsibility as a good breeder or pet owner.  If you are acquainted with your vet, in a time of crisis, you will be able to feel comfortable about him/her caring for your little one.  Make sure you get this across to a prospective chin owner/breeder.

I know some people may have different views on the subject, and of course there is going to be new breeders, thats how we keep bettering the species.  But what about those who are just in it for cuteness and money?

It's the 'new breeders' and new chinchilla owners we have to teach, as we ourselves, continue to learn.  Learning constantly, is for everyone, that cares enough to have and/or breed a chinchilla.  If your prospective customer doesn't seem to want to learn or listen ... then, they don't need to have a chin.   It is your responsibility to say you will not sell to them.  They may get insulted and become indignant with you, but you are a mature humanbeing and should know you are doing what is best for the chin.  A chinchilla needs protection, a chin cannot protect itself. 

I spent 18 months learning as much as I could about chinchillas, before I got my first chinchilla, and many, many years later, I'm still learning.  Text books and references are great, but when you get a chin in your hands, it's the real thing.  If a problem (sickness or accident) happens and you have studied, you can usually recognize the problem before it gets any worse.  If you don't know, you could do more harm than help. 

 
Jo Ann