Chinchilla Community Forums
Chinchillas => Health => Topic started by: trillianh on November 02, 2010, 09:25:30 PM
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He won't eat rose hips or Vit C chewables, or fresh fruits, so how can I get him the Vit C needed for tooth repair??? He recently had to have his teeth trimmed because of overgrowth :-\ and the coloring is good but I have never given him Vit C and lately I have been researching and it seems it is widely accepted that they need it. So any ideas on what I can give him with Vit C is greatly appreciated.
I have ordered new hay, pumice stones, bark etc. to ensure we do not need another vet trip!
Thanks!
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different types of hay are also good because it will wear down the back teeth some safe ones are:
botanical, meadow, oat, brome and a few others.
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Vitamin c will not help teeth that are overgrown. It is a misconception that chinchilla s need extra vitamin c like ginipigs. If he has teeth problems he will need filings. and he will need xrays to check for root growth. You may also want to start weighing him with a gram scale weekly to make sure he doesn't start to lose weight. Good feed, good hay and fresh water along with lots of things to chew on is what a chinchilla needs.
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Yes he gets plenty of types of hay, good pellets, Mazuri is what he will eat. He also gets tons of different kinds of safe woods to chew on. I know it will not help with his teeth overgrowing but Vit C helps his teeth from "floating" and strengthens the connective tissue. His weight is good and steady.
So anybody know some good chin safe sources for Vit C?
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Most breeders and Ranchers do not give the chinchillas vit C... I have never heard the term floating???
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i've also heard some people say that vit c helps, and some people say it doesn't.
star is a rep breeder, so i would trust what she has to say.
what i would do is keep giving all types of chews, not just wood, but try lava items, pumice, and like i suggested earlier, different hays for the back teeth.. they are just as important.
not to sound like a jerk, but once when i had my chins teeth checked, my vet told me she never saw teeth look so good on a chin and i do rotate all the different hays/grasses.. they are different in toughness, if that is the right word, and so they chew in differen patterns so it keeps everything worn good in the back...
i'm not saying that by doing this you will never have a problem again, but it will definately help alot.
best of luck
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So here is a resource that shows Vit C is actually a very good idea, although many on here seem to disagree. I also found out that chins will not keep to much Vit C in their systems so you can not overdose. On chincare.com they show many different breeders, rescues etc. that do believe Vit C is a good idea and since it can't hurt why not? I have also established he is not Calcium deficient.
http://www.chincare.com/HealthLifestyle/DentalCalC.htm#vitc
I give him TONS to chew on, several different types of hay, 5 different kinds of wood, pumice in every shape so I will just be supplementing with Vit C. He is just SO picky.
By "floating" I mean the teeth are open-rooted, they are not set in the bone like human teeth. They are only attached with connnective tissue, which can be strenghthened by Vitamin C.
Has anyone given their chins strawberries I know they have a ton of Vit C and not too much sugar.
I really don't mean to be a brat, I just want to do everything I can to keep him healthy and since Vit C can't hurt and many think it is a good idea I though someone might know some other food options for my picky boy :)
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't trust that site personally. too much bad/wrong information that could actually kill a chinchilla... Fruit is not good for chinchillas (veggies either) You actually get vitamin C from sunlight so with natural light you get what you need....
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I should say not all detal issues are genetic..some is deficiency but root growth is genetic, there is a ton of research out there. It is a recessive gene. Dental issues that can be corrected do not involve root growth, Once the roots start growing down into the jaw or up into the Jaw that is sadly not corectable and you delay the inevitable
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i'm definately not a pro on this subject, but seeing as you do give him all this stuff, maybe it is a genetic thing.
i know he doesn't like rosehips, but what about crushed rosehips... of course they taste the same, but i'm just wondering if maybe he doesn't like the shape or something silly like that... just a suggestion, sorry not a great one, but i thought i would pass it along.
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Dental issues that can be corrected do not involve root growth, Once the roots start growing down into the jaw or up into the Jaw that is sadly not corectable and you delay the inevitable
This is not true. If the root is positioned where it can be removed without affecting other systems, removing it (and possibly part of jaw bone as quite often the only way to remove it is from the outside) corrects the problem. The consequent problem is that the teeth will not grow - and wear down - at the same rate since the rootless tooth will stop growing but this means you'll have to get the overgrowing tooth filed regularly.
I'm not saying this is possible in every case (and I would imagine it would be very hard to do if it's growing upwards) but it's not true that all chins with overgrowing roots are condemned to death.
Vit C - I know you've mentioned chewable vit c tablets but have you tried standard hard tablets? I supplemented Fluffy when she was pregnant and she just took it off me and ate it. I know that lots of people also say that fresh veg is not a great idea for chins because of bloat, however, the newest research suggests this is usually caused by lack of fibre rather than fresh veg. My chins actually get fresh spinach or kale simply because when i got my first one, my vet gave me a list of things to feed them. I have six and five of them get fresh veg (only got the sixth one a week ago and she needs a lot of tlc and not too many change in diet at the moment) and i've never had a problem. they only get a tiny bit like, 2-3 leaves.
I recently stumbled across this website http://www.chinchillas4life.co.uk/diet.html - you may find that interesting as it describes a died of dried veg and herbs adapted from wild chin diet that's helped their chin who had teeth problems.
One more thing - pellets are fortified with vit c, however, it goes within a couple of months after opening the packet so if your pack lasts for longer than that, you could get smaller size or chuck it and open a new one.
Good luck! I just got a rescue chin a week ago that has a huge overgrowing root. At the moment, she needs to put weight on before we can even do an xray and she was fed so much rubbish before she came to us that she's not sure what it is she should be eating. But I really do hope that we can help her. xx
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there are also two stories about chins with dental problems and change in diets (one to include green leafy veg, one to include dried veg) in here
http://www.chinchillas4life.co.uk/basil.html
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Good news, my baby has definitely warmed up to the vit c tablets and now practically rips them from my hand. When I grab the bottle and he hears the shake he runs up and down his cage in anticipation! I also purchased him some good quality bluegrass and timothy hay from Kleenmama's hayloft http://www.kmshayloft.com/catalog/index.php and his teeth seem to be doing good the outside, soon he will go to the vet for an x-ray to confirm this.
The idea of adding veggies, dried or otherwise is very interesting and if my baby needs more help I will definitely look into this.
Thanks all for the suggestions, I know we may not all agree but one thing is clear we love our chins and only want the best for them!
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fantastic news! yay!
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I treated a maloccluded chin for 6 years.
I followed the advice of my vet, and other well known chin folks on the net by giving him vit.c. to help strengthen his gums and the ligaments that hold in the teeth.
He had trims every 3-4 months after each bout of not eating. Followed by a couple of weeks of syringe feedings to soft food to back to eating pellets & hay.
He was not a normal happy healthy little guy and each attach and round of trims took more and more out of him. We finally decided after 6 years he'd had enough.
Does malocclusion mean a premature death sentence. Sure it does, and it definitely takes away from their quality of life. There is no cure.
What works for some will not work for others.
Does vit.c help? I felt it did or I wouldn't have gotten 6 years of trims out of Coady.
Each of us have to decide what we and our chinchillas can handle when dealing with illness.
I would never put another chin through what I put Coady through.Thankfully I haven't had to decide since.
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so sorry to hear about coady :(
it is hard. i think each case is different and that you should not throw in the towel at diagnosis. i have read chin stories that described dental problems that were corrected by combination of vet treatment and change in diet. and then there's stories like debbie's... i would like to think that i will know when enough's enough but it's such a hard decision.. i've only had this girl for less than three weeks and i absolutely love her. the fact that she's clearly had such a hard life makes me try really hard to make her better. this combined with her getting brighter and brighter the longer she's with us... thing is, with her, i pretty much know her problems are caused by very poor diet (she was fed on banana chips and chinchilla mix, hardly any hay, no chew toys) - her incisors, even though not overgrown, had angled chewing surfaces when i got her. they are pretty much straight now. after only 2.5 weeks. so i do feel she deserves the best shot to see if correcting the current problem and feeding her the right stuff will help... but of course i don't want her to suffer. so.. fingers crossed!
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I agree with Debbie, I know I sound Harsh when I say it doesn't work and Malo chins need to be put down but I have dealt with Malo and in my opinion it comes to quality over quantity. All the surguries and treatments often can extend their lives but you need to decide to what point is it actually good for the chinchilla. Like someone who said that if they just remove a bit of the jaw etc...That is in my opinion cruel. You can do what you will obviously but in the end I hope you can make the decision to let him go while he has some dignity Malo will kill no matter what the treatment in time. it starts with oh..they just need a filing every few months...to every few weeks..to that doesn't work so we....You need to know how much you are willing to put them through. It isn't about cost of vet visits or not loving the chinchilla it is about the little one having the best life he can which sadly isn't always the longest.
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Like someone who said that if they just remove a bit of the jaw etc...That is in my opinion cruel. You can do what you will obviously but in the end I hope you can make the decision to let him go while he has some dignity
i do agree with you to some extend. do i think it's right to let a chin go rather than put them through a surgery that will prolong their life but also their suffering? yes. do i think it's right to let a chin go rather than put them through a surgery that will fix the problem, save their life and allow them to lead a normal life? absolutely not.
as i said, each case is different. my particular chin has a root problem and the surgery is indicated (we need xrays first). if she can have the surgery, it will fix the problem and she will have a great life after, interrupted only by occasional filings of one tooth (this would be a result of surgery and not part of the original problem). yes, they do take a bit of their jaw out, but they make a door like flap and the bone grows back so it's not like they're going to be missing half their face for the rest of their lives.
i am not saying that it's not major surgery and given the size of the animal, the vets don't really take it lightly. in fact, they will not do it unless they believe this will fix the problem.
i should probably point out that this chin does not actually suffer from malocclusion, she has dental problems stemming from being on a completely wrong diet until now. in the short two and a half weeks she's been with us, her angled chewing surfaces on her incisors are pretty much flat now - this wasn't much of a problem but it speaks volumes, especially given she's not actually eating as much roughage as my other chins. if we can fix her current problem, feed her the right stuff, she should be fine.
she is also missing a back leg. yes, she can't stand up, can't have tummy rubs and when she eats she has one front paw on the floor but she moves at the speed of light and you would not actually notice she's missing a leg at all to start with! some people would have thought it would be cruel to amputate and would have put her down instead. i'm glad her then owners didn't because she adapted incredibly well.
i'm only a foster parent so ultimately, the decision will be between the vet and the rescue - they both lose animals on a fairly regular basis and they're not attached to her in the way i am so their thinking will be objective. as for me, i trust my vet and i know that while she wants her to get fixed, she will tell me when to stop.
but, i maintain that you cannot say that all chins will malocclusion (and it's probably important to point out that half the dental problems chins have are labled wrongly as malocclusion) should be put down as soon as you discover the problem.
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I agree many "dental problems" are not malo. True Malo is a death sentence. Maloclusion is a genetic disorder that causes the roots to grow the wrong way into the jaw and up into the nasel cavity and eventually the brain. Malo cannot be corrected. Other Dental issues can. The problemm is when people lump Dental issues in with Malo when they are separate issues then. A chinchilla with Dental issues from a poor diet at a young age is not a Malo cage it is a dental issue.
And the leg thing I have 2 different chinchillas here Missing a back leg. I am not saying all chinchillas with a medical issue should be euthanised I just feel that people get very caught up in the selfshness of wanting to hang on to a beloved pet many times they do not do what is kindest. You see the same with people who have dogs with Cancer etc...sometimes as owners we need to take a step back and look with less emotions. If I were sure the issue was going to be fixed and it was not genetic than I look differently. But A dietary diffecieny that caused a tooth growth issue is not actually Malloclusion..
I do wish you the best of luck and hope it works out. As sometimes it does. When King prolapsed many people told me it was a death sentence and we got him through without any surgery at all. So I hope you don't think I just put animals down...I just know after seeing people go through Malo for 14 years of being in the chinchilla world Malo (that is true Malo) is a death sentence. I have seen hundreds of people and I mean hundreds put their chinchillas through some cruel treatments to "cure" it and always regret it after.
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of course i don't think you just put sick chins down! it's just that i feel that if a chin is diagnosed with anything, if it's too awful when you discover and there's nothing you can do, then as heartbreaking as it is, the decision has to be made. however, if your chin is diagnosed and you catch it early, you can start treatment, adjust diet, supplement etc and see if that helps. sometimes it does! if you are doing everything right and still no joy, you need to reconsider further course of action. i just think you need to try first if there is a chance they can be helped!
and, as you said, you need to be very careful making sure it's malocclusion and not dental issues you're daling with.
a girl i work with has a quite old (i think he's 13) red setter. he was diagnosed with cancer of bone, lung and something else. they put him on medication, he pretty much turned into a mental puppy, runs around like a lunatic, eats like a horse and is a very happy dog! the diagnosis was made nearly two years ago and i cried when she told me because i thought that would be it!
i don't know about mae. i so wish i got to her sooner. i don't even know if she's going to make it through the xray... and if she does.. what will the xray show.
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't trust that site personally. too much bad/wrong information that could actually kill a chinchilla... Fruit is not good for chinchillas (veggies either) You actually get vitamin C from sunlight so with natural light you get what you need....
One gets Vitamin D from sunlight...My friend must spend at least 30-40 minutes outdoors for health reasons. Her body lacks Vitamin D. I never heard of Vitamin C from sunlight... ::think::
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I am sorry you are correct it is not vitamin C that comes from Sunlight it is Vitamin D. I am very sorry. Sunlight produces Vitamin D I made an error in my letters in my memory
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I am sorry you are correct it is not vitamin C that comes from Sunlight it is Vitamin D. I am very sorry. Sunlight produces Vitamin D I made an error in my letters in my memory
It happens...I just happen to know about the Vit. D due to my friend needing to be outdoors every day.