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General Chat / Re: Happy birthday nickers!!!!!
« on: June 18, 2012, 10:11:17 AM »Oh, and does anyone have any ideas for a special birthday treat?
A fully equipped own room.
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A fully equipped own room.
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General Chat / Re: Escape artist.
« on: June 17, 2012, 05:11:48 AM »
Although they are sensitive, I think one must not step over the limit and allow everything. If you spoil him he'll get used to being permitted to do all he wants. And since you must put him back and somehow show him he's behaved improperly, his sadness is inevitable, but still better than spoiling him and/or letting him chew the room to ruins and exposing his health too.
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Health / Re: Can a Chinchilla Drink Too Much and Get Sick?
« on: June 16, 2012, 03:34:24 PM »
Yes, Imodium is the most commonly taken drug for diarrhea, since it's easy to obtain.
It is interesting that it's said to be ineffective, since it works based on natural processes like osmosis and absorption that can't be altered. I may also call out your attention that sticking to only one reference is often decieving.
It is interesting that it's said to be ineffective, since it works based on natural processes like osmosis and absorption that can't be altered. I may also call out your attention that sticking to only one reference is often decieving.
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Health / Re: Can a Chinchilla Drink Too Much and Get Sick?
« on: June 16, 2012, 09:29:48 AM »
If you think about motility, it can be inhibited by various methods, e.g. opioid-receptor-agonists.
If you mean the ion channels, almost all in the humans can be selectively inhibited, but a far more convenient solution is bonding the excess water (trivial coal tablets) by all viewpoints (cost, speed, side effects, application, interactions).
If you mean the ion channels, almost all in the humans can be selectively inhibited, but a far more convenient solution is bonding the excess water (trivial coal tablets) by all viewpoints (cost, speed, side effects, application, interactions).
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Health / Re: Can a Chinchilla Drink Too Much and Get Sick?
« on: June 16, 2012, 02:38:31 AM »
No problem at all, I'm lame in a lot of things so have learnt how to patiently explain since I've also been told useful things in these subjects by patient people. Just please stop being sorry for everything. 
I agree that in extreme conditions, overconsumption of water can cause diarrhea. Pathologically, I don't find it beyond the realm of possibility at all.
Acute and chronic stress MUST have different effects, since otherwise stressfully living people would dehydrate by diarrhea in a day or so. But maybe the former one isn't even stress, but rather anxiety. I haven't dug myself deeply in this yet, but will ask more clever acquaintances from 3rd or 4th year.
You are right, sympathetic dominance mainly decreases the motility of the intestines, this is the function I meant, just didn't make it clear, now I say sorry for this.
Cathecolamines in fact change the permeability of the intestinal wall, but for the ions, which rush the lumen, creating hyperosmolarity, thus starting to pump water in the lumen, too, to recover the balance. Permeability for water doesn't change (imo), just for maintaining the balance, more water is required in the colon.
I agree that in extreme conditions, overconsumption of water can cause diarrhea. Pathologically, I don't find it beyond the realm of possibility at all.
Acute and chronic stress MUST have different effects, since otherwise stressfully living people would dehydrate by diarrhea in a day or so. But maybe the former one isn't even stress, but rather anxiety. I haven't dug myself deeply in this yet, but will ask more clever acquaintances from 3rd or 4th year.
You are right, sympathetic dominance mainly decreases the motility of the intestines, this is the function I meant, just didn't make it clear, now I say sorry for this.
Cathecolamines in fact change the permeability of the intestinal wall, but for the ions, which rush the lumen, creating hyperosmolarity, thus starting to pump water in the lumen, too, to recover the balance. Permeability for water doesn't change (imo), just for maintaining the balance, more water is required in the colon.
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Health / Re: Can a Chinchilla Drink Too Much and Get Sick?
« on: June 15, 2012, 03:18:30 PM »
Forum posted a little part of my post, so I delelted it and hope I manage to post it entirely:
I'm glad that in the bigger part we get along. BUT you still don't seem to understand what I put the emphasis on. A lot of times. And the proof is this part:
I have said that stress-caused poo loosening and water-excess poo loosening are 2 completely different cases which don't have a single thing in common. You see:
1. stress diarrhea
2. overdrinking diarrhea
2 different things. With no correlations. This was a bit joking example, but the simplest way of telling what I want (and have).
Now what stress causes to the intestines has already been covered by me. The other thing it induces is sympathetic dominance. Now we have to isolate acute stress (like before an exam) and chronic stress (every day stressing because of work/housekeep/family/money leading to burn-out syndrome, lethargy, depression blah blah).
Acute stress unleashes a lot of chemicals leading to symp. dom. (decreased function of guts) and also other cathecolamines leading to diarrhea since they open ion-carriers and channels, unleashing tons of ions in the colon, and ions carry plenty of water with them. Now which state (diarrhea or low function by symp. dom.) will dominate, is variable between living systems.
So, chins go through acute stress and panic when their owners leave or something unusual happens, and whether they have constipation or diarrhea, that will be decided by their body, letting either sympathetic dominance take over control, or not (so the ions rush the colon)
I repeat just in case: stress-caused diarrhea is NOT our topic. Neither does it form the problem of our original discussion.
I'm glad that in the bigger part we get along. BUT you still don't seem to understand what I put the emphasis on. A lot of times. And the proof is this part:
I don't know if you're familiar with the phenomenon but often stressed chins can present with squishy (not liquid) poo. But more often chins are bad about presenting with constipation from stress and their gut motility tends to decrease to the point of GI status if it's bad enough and sometimes (though rarely) it can cause a blockage. I am curious about how you might explain that.
I have said that stress-caused poo loosening and water-excess poo loosening are 2 completely different cases which don't have a single thing in common. You see:
1. stress diarrhea
2. overdrinking diarrhea
2 different things. With no correlations. This was a bit joking example, but the simplest way of telling what I want (and have).
Now what stress causes to the intestines has already been covered by me. The other thing it induces is sympathetic dominance. Now we have to isolate acute stress (like before an exam) and chronic stress (every day stressing because of work/housekeep/family/money leading to burn-out syndrome, lethargy, depression blah blah).
Acute stress unleashes a lot of chemicals leading to symp. dom. (decreased function of guts) and also other cathecolamines leading to diarrhea since they open ion-carriers and channels, unleashing tons of ions in the colon, and ions carry plenty of water with them. Now which state (diarrhea or low function by symp. dom.) will dominate, is variable between living systems.
So, chins go through acute stress and panic when their owners leave or something unusual happens, and whether they have constipation or diarrhea, that will be decided by their body, letting either sympathetic dominance take over control, or not (so the ions rush the colon)
I repeat just in case: stress-caused diarrhea is NOT our topic. Neither does it form the problem of our original discussion.
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Health / Re: Can a Chinchilla Drink Too Much and Get Sick?
« on: June 15, 2012, 07:42:20 AM »That's cool. I thought "Off ended" literally meant "offended"!
Haha! I didn't even notice the similarity when typing down.
It is a logic issue as opposed to a scientific one.
No, it's not. You know where I study from the introduction thread, I'm deeply in these things.
Your original article precluded the possibility of it on the grounds that the chinchilla's system is ideal and therefore always maintains an ideal fluid balance inside the intestines.
The intestines' fluid control has nothing to do with the original problem. As I mentioned it above, occuring diarrhea is based on neural direction (elevated levels of cathecolamines during stress), the main thing is the kidney function and the interstitial fluid level, which have the greates effect on urine excretion. So the fluid level of the intestines can and must vary in normal and even most of abnormal conditions, but has nothing to do with increased fluid intake. Or at least this was my first supposition.
So by the time it gets to the colon you're faced with abnormal conditions that might cause expulsion of liquids. I would think in the form of what we call "squishy poo".
But if water absorption has no difficulties, even the elevated level of water will be able to be absorbed, therefore entering the circulation, and leaving the whole rest work to the kidneys, taking the responsibilty off the colon.
Water intoxication lies entire itself upon the simple process that a local oedema grows in the brain, causing death when not treated. Moreover, your article doesn't even mention diarrhea.
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Health / Re: Can a Chinchilla Drink Too Much and Get Sick?
« on: June 15, 2012, 03:07:07 AM »
It seems my intentions were what you misunderstood. Absolutely no offence was taken by me, you did not upset or attack or whatever me, we were discussing something. I didn't even think of being offended, so apology is of no use. 
And you are absolutely right to start a new thread, since we were off topic there a bit, so really...don't feel any bad.
One of your last statements is the conclusion I have been supporting: evidence against the fact that drinking too much can cause diarrhea.
You are absolutely right about genetics and alteration in domesticated animals, but keep in mind that those ones having mutations in basic physiological occurances do not survive. Neither did in the past, nor will in the future. Water absorbance from intestines and excretion via the urinary system is such a basic function. The intestines are not designed to handle the excess, and only carry the burden when the kidneys have some kind of malfunction, only then will the intake of water influence the fecal outcome. So it's pathological. The normal function is controlled by a set of hormones that usually show minimal sensitivity to stress and such conditions. In stress, diarrhea occurs mainly because of increased intestinal movement, so less time is available for water absorbance in the large intestines. And since the capacity of the stomach is not beyond that of the kidney's excretion rate, vomiting occurs when too much fluid income is present, so it is impossible to physiologically consume so much water that the kidneys would'nt handle.
Now, the above processes are true for humans, but since chins can't vomit, I don't know if they can drink so much that it stays in the guts and leaves the body this way. More physological facts and research must be done before I can either say you're right and water overdose can cause diarrhea, or insist on my statement that it's impossible.
And really, don't apologize to me, this is a normal discussion and you haven't said anything offending, neither in the previous thread we have left.
And you are absolutely right to start a new thread, since we were off topic there a bit, so really...don't feel any bad.
One of your last statements is the conclusion I have been supporting: evidence against the fact that drinking too much can cause diarrhea.
You are absolutely right about genetics and alteration in domesticated animals, but keep in mind that those ones having mutations in basic physiological occurances do not survive. Neither did in the past, nor will in the future. Water absorbance from intestines and excretion via the urinary system is such a basic function. The intestines are not designed to handle the excess, and only carry the burden when the kidneys have some kind of malfunction, only then will the intake of water influence the fecal outcome. So it's pathological. The normal function is controlled by a set of hormones that usually show minimal sensitivity to stress and such conditions. In stress, diarrhea occurs mainly because of increased intestinal movement, so less time is available for water absorbance in the large intestines. And since the capacity of the stomach is not beyond that of the kidney's excretion rate, vomiting occurs when too much fluid income is present, so it is impossible to physiologically consume so much water that the kidneys would'nt handle.
Now, the above processes are true for humans, but since chins can't vomit, I don't know if they can drink so much that it stays in the guts and leaves the body this way. More physological facts and research must be done before I can either say you're right and water overdose can cause diarrhea, or insist on my statement that it's impossible.
And really, don't apologize to me, this is a normal discussion and you haven't said anything offending, neither in the previous thread we have left.
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Health / Re: Separation Anxiety
« on: June 14, 2012, 12:36:29 PM »If you want to debate I'd be glad to take it to a dedicated thread. I'll leave this alone here since this thread is about a potentially sick chinchilla that might need help.
Go ahead, just let me know somehow where to search for the new thread!
And secondly, our little debate here was intended to clear out a possible cause of the illness of the chin. I hope Toki also sees it that way, since we didn't want to destroy.
Off ended.
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Health / Re: Separation Anxiety
« on: June 14, 2012, 11:37:25 AM »Actually this is not unheard of. I've observed this in pet birds
Mammals. I said mammals.
The fact that the digestive and urinary (and the reproductory) systems haven't isolated completely in birds is obvious by just recalling that they have a united exit of them: the cloaca.But I give you right partially and say sorry namely I have forgotten that chins can't vomit, and as a result, the excessive water that passes beyond the capacity of the kidneys CAN leave the body via the intestines. So yes, I must draw back my previous statement that it's impossible. Sorry!
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Health / Re: Separation Anxiety
« on: June 14, 2012, 03:06:22 AM »…maybe your chin is drinking too much water or something like that.
Since the regulation of body water occurs via the urinary system, I don't think drinking much water would cause diarrhea. It's enough to imagine a human drinking a lot of fluid: he won't have problems with poop as a result. Yes, I know chins are not humans, but most physiological functions have been preserved during the evolution, and mammals don't differ much in this viewpoint.
But anyway, why would a chin drink too much?
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Cages / Re: Advice needed, plans enclosed!
« on: June 14, 2012, 02:53:17 AM »
Thank you gentlemen! It makes me glad you like it.
Chinclub: I'm not sure about the walls. Covering them inside with metal is ugly, as it is with a mesh, too. Isn't the fact true that they only chew on something which they find a starting edge on? Or anyway, will they insist on chewing the furnishing when they have constant chewing wood/blocks/rock/anything?
Chinclub: I'm not sure about the walls. Covering them inside with metal is ugly, as it is with a mesh, too. Isn't the fact true that they only chew on something which they find a starting edge on? Or anyway, will they insist on chewing the furnishing when they have constant chewing wood/blocks/rock/anything?
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Cages / Advice needed, plans enclosed!
« on: June 08, 2012, 03:38:29 AM »
Hey!
Based on what I've read and seen about chins, I planned my own unique cage, and I'd like to know if it will be proper for my future darlings. Everything will be proof, the stone at the bottom is gonna be andesite or something similar, the hideout is just a sketch, I don't know what it will be like. Same goes for the pink bed and chewing/climbing wood, too. The main thing I'm asking now is if the organization of the shelves and walls is appropriate.
So, will that be good? I want to build a cage that's strong but also light, what thickness of wood for the walls do you recommend? Is it also a good idea to cover the free edges and corners with acid-proof zincked metal that also prevents chewing?
Oh and the dimensions:
w,l: 27 inch
h: 39 inch
If you find it cool, we'll soon start obtaining the ingredients with my best friend who also has a lot of experience in carpentering, so will help me building this like an expert.
Any more advices on how to make it better are appreciated!
Cheers,
X
Based on what I've read and seen about chins, I planned my own unique cage, and I'd like to know if it will be proper for my future darlings. Everything will be proof, the stone at the bottom is gonna be andesite or something similar, the hideout is just a sketch, I don't know what it will be like.
Same goes for the pink bed and chewing/climbing wood, too. The main thing I'm asking now is if the organization of the shelves and walls is appropriate.So, will that be good? I want to build a cage that's strong but also light, what thickness of wood for the walls do you recommend? Is it also a good idea to cover the free edges and corners with acid-proof zincked metal that also prevents chewing?
Oh and the dimensions:
w,l: 27 inch
h: 39 inch
If you find it cool, we'll soon start obtaining the ingredients with my best friend who also has a lot of experience in carpentering, so will help me building this like an expert.
Any more advices on how to make it better are appreciated!
Cheers,
X
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Guestbook / Hungarian newbie
« on: June 08, 2012, 03:12:03 AM »
Hey!
I'm a Hungarian 19 y.o. boy, currently studying at the Semmelweis Uni, Faculty of Medicine, and undergoing the wonders of exam session at the moment...phuhh...
In my high school which has a reputation about its biology speciality, there was an "animal house", which consisted of a classroom and the end of the corridor belonging to it, furnished and equipped to house a lot of animals, from birds via reptiles to rodents, really tons of animals were there and it was delighting to watch or feed them as a relaxing deed during a tiring day... there was my first time to see a chinchilla, I hadn't even known of their existance before, and at the moment I managed to hold one of them, I fell in love with them at once.
I currently have no animals, and have heard the well-known phrases of my mother all along my life about the fact that I can't take the responsibility for anything blah blah blah...I got fed up last year and started with some carnivorous plants, and I proved not only her but also to myself that I CAN care for living things, and now I want to continue with sth more of a challenge, that mustn't be anything else apart from a chinchilla! I need a chinchilla!
I also have a habit that if something interests me, I read and watch stuff about if all day and memorize as much as I can, so I already have a large knowledge about chins, with which I think I can start to care for one (two), but it's of course only theoretical, and it never substitutes experience, that's why I'm here to learn even more from you, talented inhabitants of this forum.
So that's all about my relation to chins, hope I'm not annoying with talking too much.
Cheers,
Bálint
I'm a Hungarian 19 y.o. boy, currently studying at the Semmelweis Uni, Faculty of Medicine, and undergoing the wonders of exam session at the moment...phuhh...
In my high school which has a reputation about its biology speciality, there was an "animal house", which consisted of a classroom and the end of the corridor belonging to it, furnished and equipped to house a lot of animals, from birds via reptiles to rodents, really tons of animals were there and it was delighting to watch or feed them as a relaxing deed during a tiring day... there was my first time to see a chinchilla, I hadn't even known of their existance before, and at the moment I managed to hold one of them, I fell in love with them at once.
I currently have no animals, and have heard the well-known phrases of my mother all along my life about the fact that I can't take the responsibility for anything blah blah blah...I got fed up last year and started with some carnivorous plants, and I proved not only her but also to myself that I CAN care for living things, and now I want to continue with sth more of a challenge, that mustn't be anything else apart from a chinchilla! I need a chinchilla!
I also have a habit that if something interests me, I read and watch stuff about if all day and memorize as much as I can, so I already have a large knowledge about chins, with which I think I can start to care for one (two
), but it's of course only theoretical, and it never substitutes experience, that's why I'm here to learn even more from you, talented inhabitants of this forum. So that's all about my relation to chins, hope I'm not annoying with talking too much.
Cheers,
Bálint
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