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[chinchillagrl06]

Yesterday a good friend of mine had one of her females and 4 kits die yesterday afternoon.   My violet male was the father. Just thought I would share the experience with everyone and just add that things like this are exactly why it is sooo important to have a good vet available before you begin any breeding. If anyone is a member of any of the other chinchilla boards, you may have seen this. It's definetly something that I have thought about since I plan of start my own herd one day.


I might as well post now since it will never get any easier..and I really am too emotional to speak with any human being..

Today I went out to pop ice cubes into the water bottles of my chinnies since when I cleaned bottles last night I had no frozen ones... I ran out of cubes and went back into the house to get some more.. where I got caught up talking to my mom for a good amount of time about my aunt (she got engaged on Saturday after being with her boyfriend for 14 years.. so this is BIG news and a much awaited event!!).

Went back out to my chinnies and noticed that Eve, my heavily pregnant standard v/c had some blood in her cage, this was new too.. as it was not there earlier in the morning nor the time that I went out to give cubes at first.

Being the most paranoid human being that you will ever come across, I ran upstairs and told my mom that we needed to go to the vet. I think I did this because I have seen 2 prolapsed chins in my time of chin ownership and I am scared to death that it's going to happen to one of my babies. My mom went down to the chins with me to look at her.. it was very little blood, mostly just on her little area and a tiny bit on the shavings. There was no sign of anything else, this wasn't a prolapse... there was nothing out of the ordinary other than blood. My mom said that when humans have babies.. the plug/water (I am so scatter brained right now that I don't remember what the heck she said) is what goes first and before there is any pushing.. there is blood. So for a human, this would be normal.

I've never seen a Chinchilla give birth.. EVER.. and now I'd really like to. Usually I come home from school or work to find kits that weren't there early in the morning.

What made me panic is that chinnies usually have their kits in the early morning.. this was later in the afternoon.. not usual for a chin to be giving birth. So after debating with my mom.. and me wanting to run to the vet, I called him up. He called back pretty quickly after getting my message.

I explained to him what I was seeing, and that Eve was acting normal. She was alert and responsive.. but laying flat, not on her side.. After a little while she started having contractions, or at least that is what I think that they were. Dr. Greek told me that this was more than likely normal, and that it was totally up to me if I took her in or not. They got me an appointment after someone cancelled.. he said she may just need more time, but not seeing her, only hearing what I was telling him.. that it seemed okay. I asked him if time was a factor (the appointment being a 1/2 hour away) and he said that it wouldn't make a difference.

After watching her lay there and do nothing for another couple of minutes I decided hands down that we were going to see the vet. I worry about everything, and my first gut feeling being "go to the vet", I had to go with it.

The vet is only about 7~10 minutes up the road from my house. My friend was over, she went and started her truck to get it nice and cold and then I took Eve out and we were off. One part of the road turns into an actual highway.. where you can go 55 MPH, but it's a very short strech.

While we were on that strech Eve started gasping out of nowhere.. she was gasping for air and then her tail started spinning. Thank God I wasn't driving, I probably would have killed us all because I panicked. We were less than 5 minutes away so all I could do is yell at her to step on it. We pulled into the parking lot and it was too late.. my baby girl had stopped breathing. Right there, that soon, that quickly. When help was so close but so far.

I ran inside with her and told the receptionist that I needed to see Tom right away, she was on the phone and told me to hold on. That's when I got even more upset.. or angry I guess you could say. I rudely interrupted her and told her that I couldn't hold on, that my Chinchilla had stopped breathing just a few minutes ago out in the parking lot and that she was pregnant. She took 10 or 15 minutes (or maybe just that long in my panicked mind) to get off the phone and take her back.. she didn't get off the phone after I told her the first time so I started knocking on the counter with my hand.. like an impatient *****. Must have worked because she put the caller on hold and took Eve back to the doctor.

They called me back a few minutes later and put me in a room. Dr. Greek came in and told me that she was gone.. he said he didn't feel any movement in her belly but he still felt some muscle twitches.. and asked me if I wanted him to see if any kits were alive. I told him yes.. so he left me and went back to see what he could do.

Came back about 20 minutes later.. he told me that there were 4 kits but that they were already gone... I don't think I've ever cried so much in front of anybody. My Eve was gone.. and took 4 angels with her.

As to cause of death.. I really don't understand. Dr. Greek told me that she had a lot of fluid in her uterus and that it looked to be unusually damaged. He said that 1 kit was positioned to come out of the birth canal and that it looked as though a kit had died.. and caused toxicity.. which killed Eve and her babies.

Is this something that even happens? I've read of stillborn kits being born.. so why didn't they cause toxicity and kill the mother??

I didn't know that a kit dying inside of it's mother was toxic. Or was this because she was about to give birth?

I'm always reading and lurking forums, I have NEVER heard of this. I've been searching since it happened and I still haven't found anything.

I am so confused.. and I'm so upset. I haven't lost an adult Chinchilla in a really, really long time and it's the hardest thing to have to deal with. I was so attached to Eve... she came to me as a girl that didn't like to be held, and left me as one of my favorite girls.. who loved to let me pet her and loved the attention. She always kept herself so clean, truly a feminine girl.. kept herself looking good by using her bath and never pooped in her hammock. I miss her so much already. What hurts the most is that when I got her I had absolutely no intent on breeding her..I didn't even have a violet male when I got her.. and I never placed her with a male. I got breeding runs.. and then a new pair of chins.. placed them in my "violet and v/c run".. then noticed the male missing one day, found him in Eve's cage, and realized that he and his mate had gotten their little metal plate out and it was no longer blocking the hole. Eve had gotten hers out as well, and so did another chin in one of my other runs. Mystique got Eve pregnant at the time, because I never put him back with her. So, she got pregnant due to MY stupidity and not knowing how to properly lock those plates in.. so she is dead because of me.

May Eve, and my first litter of quads, S12, S13, S14, and S15 rest in peace..

I just wanted to add a photo of Eve.

And a few things that I forgot to mention: when I got Eve she was a proven breeder, and originated from Nor Cal Chins. She had a healthy litter of triplets right before I got her. And from what I was told everything went smoothly, and she was a wonderful mother.

I just can't help but wonder what went so wrong.. she was so healthy, and looking wonderful.

[Sweetnessheart]

I am sooo sorry!  I know nothing I say will ease the pain.  Just know that there are people out here that feel for you and will lend you a shoulder to cry on any time!  

[chinclub]

I am so sorry to hear about what happened.  I realize that you are posting this for a friend, but I will tell you my experience with this sort of thing.  A few years back I had a beautiful Violet female who I thought might be pregnant.  She started acting like she had a respiratory infection so I took her to our vet.  He did an x-ray to confirm she was pregnant so that we would know what meds to give her (that wouldn't harm the baby).  We then put her on a safe anti-biotic.  She was improving and we thought she was better.  She died suddenly 12 hours after we stopped the meds.  We took her back to our vet who did exploratory surgery.  He found that the kit we had seen on x-ray was no longer there. (there was a mass of tissue which was all that remained of the baby) Apparently it was dead at our first visit.  Usually when a chinchilla baby dies the mother reabsorbs it.  She doesn't have a miscarrage as a human would, expelling the remains.  This baby died so far along that it was just too much for her body to reabsorb.  The baby caused her to become septic.  In her it presented as labored breathing and "coughing".  Our early detection and round of meds just prolonged the inevitable.  My female was only carrying one baby.  I can see how it could escalate if a mother became toxic while pregnant with multiple babies.  That would infect all the babies and there is no way a mom could reabsorb that many. I imagine that the toxic levels would rise quickly if more than one died and with the way chinchillas mask their illness your friend just had no notice that the female was sick.

Please tell your friend that there was nothing she could have done to stop it.  It is just one of those fluke things that happens on rare occasions.  Getting her to the vet earlier probably wouldn't have made a difference either.  I know that nothing will bring back her precious girl, but I hope that this will at least ease her mind a bit.

[Jo Ann]

Hi Chinchilla Grl,

     Sometimes these things happen and we blame ourselves.   What if we had taken her to the vet earlier?  What if we'd had her x-rayed?  And a million other "What if?"s.    For some reason, unknown to us, (we may never know), it happened, and by sharing this with others, may save another chin somewhere else. It could raise a question in a breeders mind, or make someone decide they, for some reason, did not want to take a chance and breed a particular chin or to go into breeding.   

      Each time we breed a female, we take a chance.  Usually everything goes as it should, then the next time it does not.  We have 200 chins and I could not count the number of litters over the years.  Out of all of these we have had this happen only twice, the second one last week.  We lost a momma chin, her third litter.  The first two were normal and went perfect ... This last one, she delivered a kit much to large and she died while trying to deliver the second one.  The first kit must have died in birth ... daddy must have cleaned the kit trying to stimulate it and get it to respond ... it was not cleaned up the same way the momma would have done ... it was cleal and dry, but the umbilical cord was still attached.  We found the daddy huddled near the momma and kit.   He's having some signs of depression and getting extra attention to help him some.

     It is rare something like this happens, but it does.  We share the feelings of loss.  There is nothing you could have done because you saw no warning signs that anything was wrong, until it was already to late.  Unfortunately, this is the way of the chinchilla, to hide illness and injury as long as possible.

 
Jo Ann

[Debbie.nl.ca]

It always amazes me the things that can happen.
I'm so sorry for your friends loss, and yours too, you would have been a grandparent to the kits.
Had one have a heart attack when she went into labour, just like humans here blood pressure when up, in no time she was gone.
The sad side of breeding.