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[AnnieHank]

We have two new kits, born about 5 weeks ago. They both appear to be male. I have grown ridiculously attached to the little guys and I don't want to have to give them away. I'm aware that this will be a problem when the mother comes into heat and the three males will all fight. At the moment, I have the mother, father and two kits in the one cage and they are all getting along fabulously.
I know they go into heat immediately after birth so I removed the father to another cage for about 10 days after she gave birth. I think it's unlikely she's pregnant now and I'd prefer not to have her breed again. I don't like the odds of neutering or spaying, it seems a bit risky to me.

So I have a few questions: 
- Would they still be likely to fight if she was in a separate cage in a separate room for the few days she's in heat?
- Is there a way to tell when she's going to be in heat a day or two beforehand?
- How soon after she gives birth is she likely to go into heat again?

I'm sure I'm not the first person to have this issue and I'd really appreciate advice on this.
Many thanks

[dianah]

hi anne, sorry, i don't have exactly 'answers' but i wanted to reply anyway.

if she is not pregnant, her next estrus would be 40 days later. however, if you removed the dad after she gave birth, she can be pregnant. we took the dad out as soon as we found the babies (we thought we had two male chins so that was a bit of a shock) but she still managed to get pregnant. it was extremely difficult to tell as she wasn't putting weight on, then she put on about 100g in the third month of pregnancy and then stopped putting weight on. we weren't sure she was pregnant until less than two weeks before birth when i could feel the movement, in fact we were pretty much sure she wasn't pregnant.

we had the male neutered - they loved each other and would not do well separated. he had a massive infection and despite our best efforts he died 8 weeks later when he had a reaction to anesthetic during surgery to remove a puss capsule  you cannot imagine how much that hurts and you're absolutely right to have your reservations.

however, i do not think you can tell when your female is going into heat - i think pretty much all that happens (externally) is the vaginal opening being more open than usual but there will be people on here who'll know more.

i think if you have a breeding pair, you either breed them or you keep them separate when you're not breeding them.

as for the boys, i have two. i love them to bits and i can't give them away either. i had to split them at about 4-5 months old because of the dangers of fighting. the idea to start with was that they would be neutered and paired with girls but i just cannot bring myself to do it after what happened with my beloved chinchi.

i don't know if this is right but i think the males fight for a mate, not necessarily only when the female is in heat.

could you put the baby boys together in a separate cage in a separate room permanently? you have to remove the boys from their mum when they're 8 weeks old (or up to 10 weeks if they don't weigh enough) as they can impregnante mum from this age onwards.

sorry, i know this is probably not what you wanted to hear

[chinclub]

I agree with dianah's suggestion of placing caged males in a new room entirely.  You can't predict a females heat cycle exactly and it just takes one time for males to fight.  I have had it happen here and it can be brutal! 

[ABC Chinchillas]

Simply put you cannot put a female that you do not want to breed in the cage with a male. There is no way for you to tell when she is in heat in time to pull her. Either the male will have to be nuetered or they will have to be separated

[AnnieHank]

Thanks for the replies folks.

Dinah, My sympathies. Your story is so sad, I can only imagine how you must feel. I think that pretty much rules out neutering anyway and I wasn't too fond of that option in the first place.
We were here when the babies were born and we left the dad in because I heard they can sometimes help with the birth, drying the babies or whatever. As it turns out, he slept through it all! We kept a close eye and he didn't have a chance to mate with her before we removed him.

So I guess the best thing would be to put all three males in one cage in a different room from the female and get her a cuddle buddy? Would all four ever be allowed playtime together then? If they can't see her, would that put a stop to the fighting?

[chinclub]

If they can't see OR smell her they won't fight.  But they should also never be allowed play time with her either.  separate rooms always.

[dianah]

thank you. how lovely you managed to catch the birth. we didn't catch the first one but i am guessing that even though there were three of them, chinchi didn't help out much, he was a pink white and had no gunk on him whatsoever, fluffy's paws and around mouth did though!

i caught the second birth and it was very emotional for me because chinchi wasn't with us anymore but there was this new baby that was his! i did feel really bad because even though all fluffy was doing was grinding teeth, i felt like i wasn't doing anything to help her! this is clearly not what chinchi's trail of thought when she squeezed out the triplets - it was more of 'i'm so in there!'

you could get a girl chinchilla for your female?

[ABC Chinchillas]

Keep in mid a female can get impregnated 3 days before giving birth as well. many people forget that part

[AnnieHank]

Cool you caught the second birth Dinah, it's amazing, isn't it? I suggested a female companion but my boyfriend is absolutely drawing the line at getting another chinchilla! He loves them too but says I'm crazy enough worrying and fussing about the 4 we already have!!

I did not know they could get pregnant 3 days before birth! Wish I'd heard that before.

Would it work if I let her breed and just be careful to not get attached to any more kits? It would mean putting the dad in with the other 2 male chinchillas for a few days to prevent breedback if she ever did have any more kits. It was fairly obvious when she was about to give birth to these two, I'm pretty confident I could get him out a few days before the next time. If he's likely to fight with the other two, one of our cages can be divided in two. It would mean a fairly small living environment for all three male chinchillas but it would only be for a few days every now and then.
The main problem with letting her breed is that I'm not sure Chinchillas are very popular pets here in Ireland and I wouldn't be sure of getting a good home for any more kits. I suppose I could cross that bridge when I come to it and keep them myself if I really had to!

Fingers crossed she's not pregnant again, she wasn't herself at all towards the end of this pregnancy and just sat around looking as grumpy as a chinchilla can! She wouldn't play at all and barked like crazy if we went near her for any reason. Their mating behavious is fairly obvious and I was able to predict the kits to within 3 days. I didn't notice any obvious mating behaviour before the kits were born so hopefully she's not pregnant again.

I'm not assuming anything here, just hoping for the easiest scenario!

[chinclub]

Chinchillas tend to have short term memories when it comes to each other.  If you were to put your male in with other boys only after each birth it would be like placing him in with strangers and they could fight.

[dianah]

i probably wouldn't do that. there are so many things that can go wrong - lots of breeders on here will have had babies & sometimes mothers die. you may need c-sections, mum can die from ruptured womb, the babies can get stuck in the birth canal, there can be something wrong with the babies...
my first lot, fluffy had mastitis and we had to hand feed them for about three weeks - for the first two weeks that meant feeding every two hours, day and night & a feed took approximately half an hour so you got about an hour of sleep between. it being knackering aside, you were always really worried you'd find of them dead next time you go in. thankfuly they all pulled through and fluffy took over once she recovered.

you got really attached to your boys, how do you know you won't get attached to the next litter? if you're like me, you would! and imagine, if you have to handfeed the little monkeys to keep them alive, would you be willing to part with them?
also, i think the general advice is no more than two litters per year, lots of people will not have more than one. so the mum and dad would not be able to be together for that long and you may not be able to reintroduce them after a break.

do you have a pedigree for these chins? to avoid any genetic trouble, you should know about any medical problems in the past five generations. i don't have this for mine and while neither of them has had any health problems, their relatives might have. it's something i do worry about but hopefully the babies will be ok.

i know you said it was pretty clear when she was about to give birth but if she only has one baby in her tummy that's quite small, you may not even be aware that she's pregnant. and then on the opposite side of the spectrum, remember litters usually go up in size (mine went down from 3 to 1) and can go up to 6!

as for mating behaviour, i remembered that chinchi had a bruised nose at one point and i thought he must have nose dived. i don't know if it was 4 months before she gave birth the first time but i think it may have been a result of mating. however, the second time round, there was no fur slips or anything that would suggest they mated. then again, i'm not an expert - i never intentionally bred 

[AnnieHank]

Dianah, well done for looking after your kits so well, so glad to hear they pulled through. That sounds like a tough time.
I've had to make some tough decisions- I've started to look for a good home for the kits. Even if I kept them in different room from the mother as I planned, there's no guarantee they wouldn't still be able to smell eachother and fight anyway. I probably wouldn't be able to give both sets of chinchillas the play time they needed either so I'm being selfish wanting to keep them.
As for breeding, I know the complications that can arise but I have access to a vet that knows chinchillas and I really don't want to split up a bonded pair. The dad didn't fare too well for the few days I separated him when the kits were born.
My heart is completely broken at the thought of sending the kits off to a new home but I guess it'll be better for them. I'm hoping one of my friends will take them, that way, I'll at least get to know how they're getting on.