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[lukebourne2011]

Hi, ok so if I start from the beginning it starts with the death of one of our 2 chins caused by pneumonia. He got the infection (we think) from some anathesia when we got his teeth checked. Just under a week later he had died.

But his brother, Neddy, was seemingly fine for about 5 days afterwards he was being mischievous and playful like usual, but then started showing similar signs. We took him to the vet and he got 3 injections, one a day for 3 days, of baytril. He then became himself once again, eating, drinking and pooing again, apart from 2 symptoms: sneezing and occasionally twitching.

The vet prescribed him a 2nd course of antibiotics which he was given for 6 days. He seemed to be getting better but then by the 6th day he was sneezing and twitching again and also slightly lethargic like he was at the start. We took him again and they said they'd try a different type of antibioitic just in case he'd gained an immunity to the baytril. He's had 2 injections of it and has not improved so they've said it could either be a stress related problem: losing his brother was hard for him and its very clear he's lonely in his cage and all these vet visits and medication/injections must be bothering him. OR it may be heart related. This seems less likely to me as his brothers heart was completely fine when he died, and Neds heart has been fine though out the whole ordeal so unless its extremely well hidden we thought it was best to focus on stress related things (we got told this yesterday btw) so we moved him into a quiet room where we could regulate the temperature at 19 degrees (which we read is about average for them) we also covered his cage apart from the front, so he had lots of nice dark spots to hide in. We also minimised how much we tried to pick him up as he became a bit aggressive when we reached into his hidey hole (he's never been aggressive before). We also got him a little heat able fluffy pad which he constantly lies on. We couldn't think of anything else to do so first question, what else can we do to minimise stress?

So the vet said if he doesn't improve from this 3rd course of antibiotics then it probably isn't an infection.

So now we are at the present. Tonight at about 11.35pm my girlfriend was watching him and he ran down from one of his shelves, slipped and she think he smacked his front paw on his little wooden house, since then he's been limping but she said when he did it he didn't make any pain sounds or hold his paw up as though it hurt. He just looked confused, and she didn't hear a snap either like you might if it broke.

So now, he's limping, he can move but it seems like it's a bit hard for him, so he went to his tunnel and is just lying there and looks sad.

It's too late (2am) for the vets and they open at 8.30 so we just need help and advice.

Is a break, fracture or sprain extremely serious? Is it usually fatal?
Can the fact that he had been ill mean that sedating him for an X-ray tommorow will be risky?
Has anyone had experience of a chin with infection like symptoms that doesn't seem to be cured by antibiotics?

After losing his brother we are terrified to death of losing him and the vet is already asking us to consider 'how far we want to go with this'.

We just need advice basically (even if its something we may not want to hear, if its in Neds best interest.)

Thanks

[GrayRodent]

I am not a vet so take my advice for what it is. I do recommend you discuss these things with your vet

A fracture of the foot, if it's a fracture, can be pretty serious depending on the particulars of the fracture, especially if there are bone fragments or trauma to the blood vessels. Sprains can heal on their own as long there is no significant pain and swelling. Swelling can compromise circulation in the distal part of the limb and cause gangrene if it's bad enough. Of course you probably know that pain can cause shock, anorexia, and depression so that should be managed ASAP. With that being said I would expect that if was a fracture or something more serious there would be more symptoms.

I'm not sure that your chinchilla is having an infection. It is unusual for there to be no response to broad spectrum antibiotics. Have you considered heavy metal toxicity or poisoning? This set of symptoms seems neurological to me. You might want to ask your vet about that or even get a second opinion for an exotic specialist.

If the sibling chinchilla had serious tooth problems then you may want to discuss the possibility of a tooth related issue since these can be hereditary or related to improper diet or insufficient access to things like wood to chew on and fresh hay. An xray may be in order if malocclusion was determined. That is because sometimes if there is malocclusion the roots of the teeth can grow into the skull and present with symptoms as you describe although this is rare since usually the animal presents with anorexia before it gets that bad.

If its an infection you may consider having a culture done to see if you can identify the microbes and if there is an infection present. This is a fairly common test that a good vet will offer to do before administering antibiotics. But I certainly agree that if there is no response to this third round of antibiotics it's something else.

If your pet acts like he is in pain tomorrow with its foot I think you should get an exam and start him on an NSAID to reduce pain and swelling. If your chinchilla has stopped eating you will need to hand feed and get the vet immediately if you wish to save him. The aggressive behavior may indicate pain from something and I think he needs to get diagnosed.

Heating pads and chinchillas are not advised. Chinchillas can easily overheat and this can serious damage to the brain and internal organs.

I am sorry that you are going through this. I have recently been through a huge ordeal with a pet parrot recently where there were a lot of expensive tests and he was under anesthesia about three times in five weeks without any problems but he was also at a very well equipped clinic with highly experienced staff. In my case the animal was in good condition. In your case I would stay somewhat guarded. The faster you can get a diagnosis the better if the problem is treatable. You may want to consider having full body x-ray and blood work in one shot so you only have to put him under anesthesia once if you decide to go that route.

I'll be praying for you that all will go well.

[lukebourne2011]

Ok thanks so much for your reply its definitely helpful.

We are taking him to the vets in 3 hours as there is nothing we can do before then.

With the hurt leg, we are having an x ray of that tommorow, and I don't think it is a full break because you would be able to hear that right? I've heard a bone break before and it's audible and painful so for him to not make a sound and to hear nothing break it seems like it's either a sprain, some kind of dislocation of minor fracture? What dyou think? I might be wrong as I've never heard a break in a small animal before.

Also you mentioned toxicity, we've noticed in his play area they are small bits of paint chipped of the wall, tiny, maybe like 1cm2 in total. And we think that him and his brother have done this over the last 4 months. We noticed this about 4 weeks ago and then we covered it up. It was such a small amount and the vets didn't even mention it so we didn't even consider it. I feel terrible now, could it be that? If he ingested it?

His sibling was having a check up on his teeth, they did some minor work, but from what I could tell they didn't think it was serious, but we didn't go to hat vet again as they weren't that great, didn't seem to care that much about him. Took them 3 hours to do x ray whilst he sat In a little cage all lonely

And if it helps he was eatin like mad just 2 days ago, just like normal it's only very recent that he's stop. He just looks to tired.

Also, is there a chance that this could be stress related? As in whatever is causing him to be ill simply isn't getting better because he's so stressed? That's what the vet keeps saying, we need to keep him calm and relaxed and don't bother him if he's doesnt want to be.

Sorry for the questions I just wanna go in prepared so we can get everything some and not miss anythig

[GrayRodent]

There's so many things it could be that the only thing you can do is ask questions and do tests to rule things out.
I don't think stress is the primary factor here if your chinchilla has been well socialized and tame. If he doesn't like being handled that might be a little different. It is true that stress causes problems in chinchillas including loss of appetite, aggression, and depression and taking him to the vet will make that worse if it's stress related. The problem is that pain causes the same symptoms.

Because tooth problems can cause issues with the skull, sinuses, and brain, and these symptoms do appear to be neurological on some level an xray of the skull can be done at the same time to help rule that out. The biggest expense will be the anesthesia so you might as well have that done as well. If it is that euthanasia is probably the best option.

As far as bone fractures I don't know if you would always hear them. The bones in the hind leg are narrower than a toothpick and the tendons that attach muscles to them are even smaller. And the bones in the front legs are even smaller. It seems to me though that many cases the fracture is pretty obvious because typically it just breaks all the way through and limb ends up dangling. If pain there is still a symptom, and now your chinchilla is off its food, that leads me to think that they are going to find something there. Usually if it's bad you will see swelling in the area. I do know of more than one case where minor injury of the legs from similar incidents healed up on their own after a couple of days.

As far as ingestion of paint goes four months seems like a long time for an acute exposure. I know of one that had lead poisoning from chewing paint on a window ledge but it had repeated access to it. I'm not saying you can't rule that out or that it is the cause. You may want to check if there any other potential sources. It doesn't hurt to ask about it.

Another thing that does happen that I should mention is that depression can be caused by the loss of a cage mate and some chinchillas are unable to cope with it and they'll stop eating so you might ask your vet about that too. Sometimes they'll come out of it after a few days and sometimes they don't. Sometimes in these cases handling the animal more often is better but you have the best idea of how your pet is acting. I do recommend that you make a habit of restraining your chinchilla when you put him in the cage each time so he cannot jump away until you let him go. This will help condition him to stay still until he is released. This is not the first time on the board this has happened and I know I need to be more diligent with that myself.

As far as the long wait that is not unusual for a vet clinic. Usually they'll ask you to keep food in the cage. Make sure you hand feed as prescribed. If he goes off his food for more than 24 hours straight it can cause serious health problems that are not always reversible.