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[FUSSoverGUS]

So I have been patient.  Since the last time they met and fought I have separated Gus and Neo.  First for about  2 months they were in seperate rooms. then for the past month I have had both cages in my room. they arent right next to eachother but about 3ft apart.  Neo is still fairly new to us its only been 4 or 5 months.  He isn't 100% comfortable with us I guess but still social.  I give him little treats I guess he isn't 100% trusting though.  so for the past month every week or so I switch the two boys into eachothers cages.  They have almost identical setups.  Neo must be somewhat comfortable, for some reason whenever he is in Gus's cage he sleeps in the little log we got him on his back.  Tonight I set up a fenced in play area in hopes to reintroduce the two guys.  First i let neo get used to the area alone, then gus.  Since neo is the younger/newer one i put him in the play area first.  Then I picked up Gus and sat in the play area and before i could let gus go, i was placing him in the general vicinity of neo, neo jumped up and looks like bit gus in the face.  It wasn't too serious, there wasn't any blood and gus usually wines in his corner back in his cage but this time he seemed to be fine.  I was more worried that gus would play too rough with neo but neo was definitely the aggressor.  I don't know what to do.  am i supposed to let them  fight it out a little?  i literally still had gus in my hand and hadn't even placed him down before neo bit him and i immediately removed gus out of the cage and then put neo back.  They didnt have time to get along or fight.  I dunno.  how long should i wait again? do i seperate them completely again? should i have the cages closer together next time for a longer period of time before i let them play?  I heard on youtube someone said placing a tiny amount of cologne behind one of the chins necks confuses them and lets them relearn their individual smells.  should i wait until neo is completely comfortable with me before i reintroduce them?  it took gus a while to really trust me. 
It just is terrible because i think gus gets lonely, even though we play with him.  i really wanted to get him a friend.  also, i try to play with them each an hour a day but because of my schedule its hard to dedicate 2 hours of supervised play, whereas one hour for both would be so much easier.  i tried having them both play with the room divided by the little fence i have but gus is a great jumper and is smart enough to figure out how to get over.  any advice?  does it sound like my efforts are futile? 

[Jenova]

This is my experience. Do as you are doing, swapping cages, let them use the same sand as well and also swap toys between the cages. I would keep them about 5 inches apart if you can so they can see and talk to each other.

I had a lot of trouble with my two so here are some of the things I tried:

• Letting them out in a neutral area, which you did. Letting them fight a little to determine dominance, just separate them if there is too much fur pulled or if you see blood. They need to fight a little, it's the natural way to determine dominance.
• Putting them together in a tiny cage, like a hamster cage with no shelves or a fish tank (empty of course) so they have practically no space and they have to interact. I only used this method because my two tended to ignore each other in an open space, you probably wouldn't need to use it.
• Holding the most violent one and sitting beside the open cage door of the other. This is the method that actually worked for me in the end. Cheech used to come over and groom Chong and he didn't spit at her if I was holding him. After about two or three weeks of doing this Chong just hopped into her cage and she continued to groom him. They were together until they had kits and are now separated but still good friends.
• Another way which I didn't use is apparently you can put something strong smelling on the end of both their noses so that they can't smell each other's scent and this is supposed to help them get along. I read that people have used things like aftershave or perfume but I am pretty against this idea because I always think what if the chinchilla had a reaction to it? Or what damage could it be doing to their lungs?
• My breeder said that she likes to leave to chinchillas on a cage together because they act differently when humans aren't around. It's up to you whether you do this, I was always against it because what if one of them really injured the other when you weren't there?

The most important thing I think to remember are:

• They do need to fight a little to determine dominance, but you are the owner it is up to your judgement what is too much.
  Always watch them very closely so you can intervene if you need to.
• After each failed attempt to put them together wait at least two days before you try again. This stops them remembering and also stops them just growing to hate each other more through stress.
• Have patience. Some chinchillas are destined to be apart but they are naturally sociable animals and most of the time they would rather make friends with someone they don't like than be alone. But it might take months.

And good luck.

[FUSSoverGUS]

thank you so much jenova.  I'm still scared as a paranoid parent to let my little boys fight, but honestly it makes sense.   I just had to be sure before I put them in harms way.  They have had a few scuffles but never blood shed and very little fur shedding.  When I first tried to introduce them i held one and a friend held another and we let them smell eachother but it didnt really work out well.  I am willing to be patient and have even accepted that they may never be friends; its just good to know there is still hope.

[Debbie.nl.ca]

How old are these guys?
I have never had any trouble with kits and older chins, even males seem to love babies.
The older they get the harder it is for the most part.
They will do a dominance dance, usually mounting each other and bouncing around, but if there is biting and fur flying it may never work out between them.
That said keep trying some just decide all of a sudden the other is welcome into the herd.
I always let them sniff each other from either sides of the cage to see how they will react. If one or both seem to get aggressive I know I have my work cut out for me.
If they just seem curious I open the cage holding one I let them sniff,then work up to a bath together. They seem to like the bath more than fighting.If they are willing to bath together than I let them play on the floor for a while.
They have lots of room to run if a fight breaks out.
I have even had to live together for 2 months when they turned on each other, so ya just never know.
Many of mine are quite content to have a cage all to themselves, but will tolerate playing on the floor with others.
In the end they have the last word, so if they both have their own cages and are fighting let them be. They know the other is there and can see them, so they still do have the company of another.
Who knows what they say to each other.

[Jenova]

Ooh, like Debbie said, I forgot to mention sand bathing together.
And no probs, I knew nothing when I first started posting here and everyone was really helful, I'm just passing on what I've learned in turn.

[Beth]

I'm by no means an expert, but the breeder I got my chin from recommended the "smoosh method" or whatever it's called...worth a try anyhow.  I'm sure there's lots of info about it on this site if you search!

Good luck!

[Debbie.nl.ca]

 The smoosh method works sometimes with breeding pairs but same sex pairings are a different story.Yes still worth a try.
It's all trial and error, some will just never like each other, just like people.Though people will tolerate each other chins are not so accepting.

[Abby W.]

Actually, I found the smoosh method to be very effective.  I had a trio of females I was trying to put together.  I tried all of the other conventional introduction methods; adjacent cages, shared dust, neutral playtime...nothing worked.  I finally followed the smoosh method, as it's described by Kindra Mammone.  They got smooshed together in a tiny cage for twenty minutes.  While they were doing this I completely cleaned out a large cage, so there was nothing for them to get territorial about.  I also added a LOT of hiding places and multiple dust baths in the cage.  After the smoosh time they went right into the cage.  I left them be without removing the dust or the hiding places for two days.  They have been together for several months now and get along great.  They all sleep together and eat from the same bowl.  I do not usually smoosh my chins, as it is a pretty stressful way of introduction, but it seems to work in the most difficult intros.

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Good to know Abby, thanks.
Let the chins tell you what works, if fur flies stop what ever your doing and retry again later.

[VenusTheChin]

With my chins' intro I had the cages side by side for a couple of weeks and gave them dust baths in the same dust. Then after the second week I gave them a dust and sat them on my lap, AKA neutral territory. They cacked a few time and then started investigating each other. After probably a half hour they started to groom each other and I found it ok to let them play together. I put them in the dominate one's cage so there would be no issues over dominance and it all worked out great. They are best buds now.

I also read on a bunny (I think) website of a method using stuffed animals. You make your own fleece animals and place on in each cage. Then after a few days you switch them so the other chin has a non-responsive thing with the other chin's smell on it. They will get used to the smell and by the way they react to it you might be able to predict the outcome of a intro session together. I have yet to try this method since I only have had to do one ntro so far, but I will try this next.

[Bogart]

I have 2 chins 2 Cagney being the newest, Bogart is 2, cages are close, and alternate cages 2 a week, they seem to do ok, Bogart gets pissy though I think.

Laurie

[Debbie.nl.ca]

I also read on a bunny (I think) website of a method using stuffed animals. You make your own fleece animals and place on in each cage. Then after a few days you switch them so the other chin has a non-responsive thing with the other chin's smell on it. They will get used to the smell and by the way they react to it you might be able to predict the outcome of a intro session together. I have yet to try this method since I only have had to do one ntro so far, but I will try this next.

OOHHHH I really like this idea, thanks for sharing that VenusTheChin 
I've used teddy's with singel chins to keep them company.

[Jo Ann]

   If I remember right ... Gus & Neo are both males, right?

Are there any female chinchillas in your home?    If there are, I would not put two males together in the same cage.

Often, the original chin can sometimes be jealous of the new chin and the attention paid to it by their human parent(s).  This does not seem to be the case since Neo, the newest one, is the most aggressive.   

BUT, Neo could be naturally the jealous type and be jealous of Gus and your affection for him.  If this is the case, you might try always taking care of Neo first and last (showing him the most attention) AND ... should Neo attack Gus, then Neo would be put in a time out cage (usually very small) and left where he could see you play with Gus.  Chinchillas are smart, you might be surprised how quickly they learn that the one that starts the fight ends up in "time out" and being ignored for a period of time.

Chinchillas have all the emotions humans have.  Each has it's own personality, and, as often seen with humans, some personalities do conflict.  Haven't you met some one and instantly seemed to dislike them?  That's due to a conflict of personalities, usually.  The same can be true with chinchillas.  It is rare, but does happen.

You also have to keep in mind the difference between playing, rough playing, scuffling, dominance 'play', and actual fighting. 
They can seem very similar, if you are not accustom to seeing all of these. 

Playing is usually bouncing back and forth and a little chasing each other.

Rough playing is where one is being a little to rough or rougher than the other ... this will sometimes escalate into actual fighting OR the retreat of one from the other, due to fear, or may end up in a lifelong friendship.

Scuffling is playing + a bit of grabbing and going into a roll together, there may be a little fur flying, but there is no biting or blood.  As long as this is as far as it goes, they will be OK, but keep an eye on them for a while.

Dominance play is deciding who will be the alpha chin ... humping in this instance is not sexual, but is showing dominance.  This usually plays out in one being the alpha chin and the other being the follower, but remaining friends.  BUT ... When two very strong, dominant chins are put together, the dominant 'play' can end up in a dangerous fight that can mame and/or kill one or both.  OR ... If a strong, dominant bully is put with a shy chin, it can, sometimes result in the bully not allowing the shy one to eat or drink and the bully will often beat up on the shy one just because he can.   Dominance play has to be watched carefully and followed for a long time.

Fighting is (can be) immediate fighting, or a combination of any and all of the above, but ends up in large amounts of fur flying, biting and blood.  If I ever have one draw blood from another, they are separated permanently.  I do not take the chance of it happening again ... but, this is what I do ... you have to make those decisions for your own chin, but be willing to accept the result, the responsibility, the vet bills and the possible death of one or both.

Chinchillas stress easily, when they stress is when actual physical/medical problems can develop that would not do so otherwise.  For this reason, I do not try to force any two chins together, if is seems like one or both do not want to be with the other one.

Chinchillas have allergies to perfumes, colognes, candles, room sprays, bath/baby powder, cleaning products that often affects the lungs of a chinchilla ... all of these contain artifical/man-made odors from chemicals ... I would not use any of these to introduce one chin to another.
I have found, allowing both to use the same dust bath and share the same toys or swap cages, will often work well.

Chinchillas do often act different when their human parents are not in sight.  It is best to allow them time in the room alone together, but be right outside the room to come back in quickly, should something sound 'out of the norm'.

  The chinchillas will decide what they want ... but, how far you let it go or get, is up to you.   

Keep us posted on how things are going!

   Jo Ann

[Bogart]

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Well I took Bogart & Cagney, the both got their bath, meanwhile, I cleaned  the small carrier I have w/soap and water, rinsed it back out and dried it out. Sprinkled the carrier with their bath powder,carrier has screen on both sides to see in, and wiped it all over the crate. I added Cagney first (newest) waited a few minutes and added Bogart (2years).

Of course fur flew, no real battles, they are sitting in the crate next to me, gloves ready, as I have my coffee, ad type here, there isn't fighting and screaming,more of chasing around and making noises, but nothing serious. Have one scratching to get out-Bogart. This all started at 7 AM, Bogart comes to the screen, and I talk to him and scratch the screen, opened up screen door, some fur, no blood. So, its quiet again and better., and it's 7:25Am, another 5 minutes and they can come out and backto their crates, seems to be more scuffling that anything else, just furry in there. Bagart seem to be the dominate male, both r BOYZ

[Beth]

How large is the carrier you put them both in?  From what I've read/heard that the smaller the carrier or space you put them both in to (for the smoosh method) the better.  This is because they both feel so cramped for space that neither of them exerts dominance over the other, and the whole pairing is almost equalized.  So maybe looking in to what size space/carrier etc. would be helpful?

Good luck!  Everyone on this site is so helpful  and keeps up to date with every post, so please take every advantage of that!

B