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[cadillactaste]

I stopped at the Farmers Exchange today. They have stuff for rabbits and such there as well...And I asked if they had Timothy Hay...and the woman said...Yes we have it...in seed.  Um-mm no I hadn't planned on growing the stuff...thanks anyways...


Anyways...Nibbles LOVES the Timothy Hay that I stuffed in his wire ball...he's eaten about half of it though I didn't pack it really tight...some did make the floor of the shelf. Is that to much at one time? He is having a field day with it...that's for certain.


I did find it at TSC...I believe it's the first time my fella's had any. For the website that our breeder offers food...it's not listed. Though he lists Alfalfa hay cubes. Which he did give me some as well.

Though the "treat" he has me giving him 1/2 TBS a day...is considered the "NRA Whole Grain Conditioner" on his site. If anyone wants to take a look at it...see if they are familar with that stuff...Curious if you feed yours the stuff he gave me as treats...considering buying more I think...
 
http://www.jtchins.com/feedsupplies.html

[cadillactaste]

? for you...I filled his wire ball yesterday afternoon. And by bedtime it was completely empty. And this morning the pieces that fell to the ground he had even eaten.

So I'm thinking since my fella's nocturnal...I should fill it in the evenings...due to him staying up during the afternoon yesterday to eat that hay.

I went in this morning and he stood near it shaking it then running to the door then back and shaking it again...Like...It's empty momma...I WANT MORE!!

[Jo Ann]

 

I went in this morning and he stood near it shaking it then running to the door then back and shaking it again...Like...It's empty momma...I WANT MORE!!

That's exactly what he's saying!      

They have their own little ways of telling you something.  And for those things they really want ... they make sure it is unmistakable as to what they want.   

He should have hay in his cage at all times.  After hay has been in the cage  24 hours, you need to replace it with fresh hay.  Hay molds easily and can some times be accidentally urinated on by your chin.  That's why I love the hay holders, it keeps the hay off of the floor of the cage.   Make sure you hang the hay ball above the top shelf/above the top floor, it can still be wet on by the chin if you hang it below the top shelf.

   Jo Ann

[cadillactaste]

That's good news...for he kept shaking his empty wire ball...and begging that I caved and refilled it. [I recalled your telling me I could give hay as a treat when having come to us so I figured it was a "good" food source] Anyways...He's not had it last 24 hours... I don't know if your to pack those tight..I just fill it full without over stuffing. But he's maybe a 1/4 of it left in there...

  No there's no shelf above ours...so we're good...but that's good to know. Now that I know it can mold easily...I will make sure to continue to fill it loosely.

So...? on the Alfalfa Hay Cube...does it need tossed then after 24 hours? He's not eating it like he does his Timothy Hay...He'll nibble but he's on his second alfalfa cube in a week...and since I've offered him the Timothy hay...he's sort of not even touched it. [Should I toss it out the cube of hay then?]

[Jo Ann]

   Each chin is different ... some prefer loose hay and others seem to like hay cubes best.   

Easiest way to decide which one to give him is to see which hay is the base for his pellets.  If Alfalfa hay is the base, feed Timothy hay.  If Timothy or any of the other hays are the base ingredient in his pellets feed Alfalfa.  Both hays have different qualities that are good for your chin.  Both hays are available in the bale/loose hay form, if he seems to like the texture of loose hay the best.   Often the availability of one or the other is the one that decides which you give your chin.

Almost all chins like the loose hay ... it's easy for them to handle and easier to chew.   

With the hay cube, break it down to layers about 1/4 to 1/2 in thick ... he may like it better because he will be able to carry it around the cage and handle it much easier.  If that one cube has been in there a week, I would just dispose of it ... good chance he may have wet on it ... that could be the reason he is not eating it.  If he reacts to the new cube the same way ... then it is one of two things ... he likes Timothy best ... OR ... he likes the texture of loose hay best.   Trial and error is often the decision maker.   


If a chin is sick, I give them loose Alfalfa hay.
I do tend to give the kits, pregnant moms and nursing moms the Alfalfa hay, for the extra nutrients.
Once a chin reaches 3 months of age I usually mix it half and half.
Once a chin reaches 6 months of age, I usually give the non-breeding chins Timothy hay.

If one or the other is the freshest ... go with the freshest one available.

    Jo Ann

[cadillactaste]

So the Alfalfa has more nutrients than the Timothy...And you don't even mix it until later my boy is going on 9 weeks old...so I am thinking maybe I should pick up some loose Alfalfa hay for the time being...I think they had that there as well in town at TSC.

I did email the breeder to ask what the base of their pellets are...But am thinking with him being so young...Offering him loose Alfalfa for the time being.

[cadillactaste]

Well JoAnn I pulled a piece of that Alfalfa hay off...he refused to take it from my fingers... ...Though if I offer him a Shoots Pellet. He'll take it and nibble it with no trouble at all. Which the breeder did state that it is Alfafa based...

I hope I didn't do the wrong thing by offering him Timothy hay at such a young age  ...I'm going to pick up some loose Alfafa hay tomorrow and offer it to him...see if he'll eat it.

[Jo Ann]

    You have not harmed your little buddy.   

The alfalfa based pellet should be enough and the Timothy will give him the loose hay he needs to eat. 

I would try the loose Alfalfa hay, it may be just the pressed cube form he does not like.   I do preferr giving the Alfalfa to the pregnant and/or nursing moms and to the young kits for the first few months for the extra nutrients during the time they are growing the fastest, but that's not a stead fast rule.    

    Jo Ann

[cadillactaste]

That's good to know... A friend of mine who raises goats...[I know different species of animal entirely] BUT...here's what she told me of Alfalfa and Timothy hay as in goats mind you. She is a member on a bulldog forum I go to...We have a few members there that would use hay...for as I stated other species...non-bulldog of course. By the time you responded...I posted that I had learned the value difference...And she responded as such.

with the goats and llamas they say you shouldn't give them very much alfalfa unless they are sick, pregnant or nursing because the protein is too high for them. It is especially hard on the boys and can cause stones...With that said my recommendation would be what you did and find out what chinchillas can tolerate and what is recommended for them because what is good for one species may not be good for another.

So I plan on doing your "schedule" of how you offer hay...if that's alright with you. But was curious if stones were seen in chins who were male and on Alfalfa at an older age?

[Jo Ann]

But was curious if stones were seen in chins who were male and on Alfalfa at an older age?

  Good question ... I'll have to do some research on that. 

I have heard that to much alfalfa can contribute to a fatty liver in adult chins (not pregnant or nursing females), but I have not researched that either. 

Got to get intouch with a couple of real pros ... be back to you when I hear back from them.   

    Jo Ann

[Jo Ann]

    Update:
According to Lani, researcher on chinchillas ...
Question: If you feed an adult chinchilla alfalfa hay when they are on an alfalfa based feed, will it/can it, cause kidney stones in adult chinchillas?   
"Yes, no ,maybe is the accurate answer about kidney stones in chinchillas. We know in rabbits and guinea pigs not to feed alfalfa in any form (hay or pellets) after they have turned 6 months of age. Both species have a really weird quirk for that problem.

I have heard that to much alfalfa can contribute to a fatty liver in adult chins (not pregnant or nursing females), but I have not researched that either.

  My vet made that statement, but I trust Lani, of CA Chins, more than I trust the local vet.

Question:   Will alfalfa hay cause a fatty liver in a chinchilla?
 "Fatty liver disease is usually too many treats and not enough FIBER. The liver stores the triglyerides and then converts them into glucose when needed. Just like in humans. There are other causes that trigger liver problems but alfalfa hay should not be one UNLESS it is contaminated with mycotoxins. Those molds can causes liver problems. You wouldn't necessarily know the hay/feed was contaminated. You can catch the obvious mold damage but the microscopic level requires lab tests."

Fatty livers also develop in chinchillas as a part of the "shutting-down" of the system ... a part of the process of dying, according to another breeder I trust.

Fatty livers often appear in chinchillas that have been fed nuts ... nuts have oils that the chinchilla's digestive system can not digest.

   Jo Ann

[cadillactaste]

Thanks Jo Ann...Much appreciated for the knowledge you shared...

As of the Alfalfa hay...I've just stopped offering the Timothy hay until our little fella is older. And guess what...Nibbles has been watching Fluffy eat the stuff...so he's now eating what he never would touch...So all is good...