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[Snickerdoodlesmom]

What is the difference between black velvets and ebonies?  Which tends to be more expensive?
I once went to Petland (bad idea to buy from them--- the chinchillas are cramped together and don't look healthy!!!) and saw a huge white chinchilla for $300. Why is that? Considering that he was from a pet store, I assume he wasn't so high quality (although he was tremendous!), but was the store trying to rip buyers off? Or are white chinchillas (what's the breeders' name for these?) more expensive in general?

[GrayRodent]

Black velvets are chinchillas with a standard gene and a velvet gene. The dark veiling is exaggerated.
The ebony gene typically effects the color of the white hairs on the belly and darkens them but a velvet gene does not.
It is is difficult to breed mutation colors and maintain good size which can demand a higher price. If it was a pink white then it is a more difficult color to breed for than black velvet or ebony, or a white mosaic. Chances are a breeder would sell that for about the same price.

[Snickerdoodlesmom]

Why is it more difficult?

[GrayRodent]

To get a pink white you must breed a chinchilla having one standard gene and one beige gene to a chinchilla having one standard and one white gene. In order to be pink white the kit must inherit the beige and the white gene and not either of the standard genes. This means there is a 1 in 4 chance the offspring will be pink white. Since you might see at most three litters in a year of 2-3 kits that breeding pair will produce very few if any in a given year having that particular combination of genes.

The TOV (touch of velvet) mutation is usually attained by breeding two TOV chinchillas having the TOV and standard gene. This meas you get a 50% chance for a black velvet kit which where the TOV and standard genes are inherited.

The white mosaic chinchilla may be achieved by breeding white, which has White gene, to a standard.
There is a 50% chance the White gene is inherited.

[Snickerdoodlesmom]

What are the price ranges for black velvets?

[GrayRodent]

The place where I got K'ulu from offered to sell me a black velvet for $200.00. I paid $150.00 for K'ulu who is a standard. That is my preference of color although I could have afforded the TOV chin.

[Snickerdoodlesmom]

I got Snickerdoodle (a standard) for $150, but they sold me a genetically "defective" chin Although I must say that he is the most beautiful animal I've ever seen!

[GrayRodent]

Ku'lu was from a litter where the breeder tried to get a black velvet (standard to black velvet). I wish both his parents were standards because he would have the highest quality possible but he is already turning out to be a very pretty animal. I wasn't too sure how he was going to turn out couple months ago. He had very buggy, beady eyes and short, wiry hair. Now his hair is longer and denser than my first chin at the same weight and his eyes are more proportional now.
My first chinchilla had very poor veiling. It was almost split down his back like a skunk but he otherwise had very nice proportions and coloring. His fur was very blue and his belly was bright white. It appears my new chin will have very even veiling but his belly isn't very white yet. I am anxious to see how he comes out after priming. He still has a lot of dull gray baby fur.

What really matters most to me is that he makes a good pet and there is comfort to be had in knowing that his bloodlines are shown to be clear of congenital disease.

[Snickerdoodlesmom]

He's doing nicely so far, isn't he?

[GrayRodent]

Yes he is remarkably tame now and is usually calm when held still which was a big problem when I first got him. I'm encouraging others to handle him although he still runs to me if I get too close. His weight gain is leveling off after a very steep trend at around 400g. I expect to see gain slowly over the next four months though.

[Snickerdoodlesmom]

How old is he?
And is it possible to train a chinchilla to be held once he's not a baby?

[GrayRodent]

I did that with Blue who didn't seem to ever have been held. I'm not sure how old Blue was. I was told he was 4 months old. He may have been 6 months but after seeing what a 3 and 5 month old chinchilla looks like in person I'm pretty sure he was much older and was already primed out when I got him.

It took about 6 weeks of work and for me it required a lot of strategy and learning things the hard way before I could hold blue indefinitely and without fear of getting bit. When I started he would bite after being held for 10 seconds. When I started working with him he would not let anyone touch him much less hold him and I carried him around in a box at first because I couldn't handle him. Towards the end I could hold him for 10 minutes without issues and others could too.

If anyone would put him down he would run off and find something to hide under. When I chased him he often attempted to spray me when I cornered him (yes, males can spray although it's very rare and is more of a dribble). He was really bad about jumping out of the cage or getting away so I usually did that more than once a day and I had to use a net that could get under the furniture he hid under. He did way better in a closed bathroom. I trained him so when I said "up" he would hold still so I could pick him up. (which was maybe one in five tries) If I let him run around sometimes he would choose to sit on my lap or on my arm where he could play with the TP roll. Outside of the bathroom he was always running off and hiding. He did show continued improvement all the way until he got sick. He was always a very nervous and aggressive chinchilla and would easily get startled and often slipped fur when he had to be cornered and caught. I never considered him to be truly tame.

My new chinchilla, K'ulu, is about 4.5 months old. I got him when he was 3 months old and he didn't like being held either but I know he was handled by the breeder and was not skittish or opposed to being touched but took to being held within three weeks. It was much easier to train him and he never slipped fur when I did. It's funny because I expected chinchillas in general to be much more like Blue was. I enjoyed the challenge immensely with Blue but I'm glad my new chin started out tame. I will be able to do more with this one and have him out much more often as a result.

[chinclub]

The TOV (touch of velvet) mutation is usually attained by breeding two TOV chinchillas having the TOV and standard gene. This means you get a 50% chance for a black velvet kit which where the TOV and standard genes are inherited.

Actually you can not breed two TOV chinchillas together because TOV cant exist in the homozygous state.  Those babies that would have been homo TOV will not be born. TOV is a dominate gene so you would have to breed a TOV to a standard.  That is true for all whites as well (pink white, mosaic, ebony white, ect)

[GrayRodent]

Yes, that is true. I knew that but I don't know why I typed that. I was looking right at the chart!  Oh well...

[Snickerdoodlesmom]

GrayRodent, it seems like K'ulu is a great pet (and from the picture you posted a long time ago, he's very pretty, too!). For some reason, I just thought of a random question (I guess because you said Blue would bite you): do you think that Snickerdoodle doesn't bite because he knows it hurts?  He has NEVER bitten anyone in the entire year that I've had him, but he also doesn't like to be told what to do (so I doubt he was trained not to bite). When I'm bothering him, he'll whack me with his hand; if I don't stop, he gently moves my finger away with his teeth. He has never kacked at anyone except once at my dad--- I think he was alarmed, though. Is it possible that I just have a very sweet chinchilla?
Why can't TOVs be bred together? What would the kits look like?