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Author Topic: Horribly Aggressive Chin Behavior, HELP  (Read 7136 times)

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Stitch2587

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Horribly Aggressive Chin Behavior, HELP
« on: December 01, 2013, 03:55:17 PM »

Hello,
My boyfriend and I are still fairly new chinchilla owners. We bought him from a friend of a friend about 6 months ago. The chinchilla's is a male, and is just over 4 1/2 years old. All was going well at first. We had no problems. He was fairly hesitant of us, which we expected. About 2 months ago though, all was fine. He was much more comfortable with my boyfriend (who he lives with), which I also expected. For the last month though, something has happened to my chin. He is no longer the chin we've had for the past few months. He is now extremely mean. There has been no change in his routine. He has a very large cage, playtime every day, with many toys and a wheel inside his cage. Anytime we open the doors to the cage, and even start to put our hand in it, he barks. Consistently, until we take our hand out. As of lately, my boyfriend cannot even look at him by the cage without him barking at him, and getting very angry. We used to be able to pet him inside the cage, without him running away. That is no longer the case. Last week, our chin actually bit him for the first time. We have had small nibbles, but never anything large. This time, it was a very firm bite, and then followed by more and more barking. We can no longer pet him, he backs up, barks and start to kind of lunge at us. The only time he is not mean and aggressive, is when he thinks he hears the treat bag opening. Then he can be the sweetest chin, fully accepting of being pet.
At this point, we are kind of at a loss of what to do. For the last month, it has been hell just trying to take care of our chin. I love him so dearly, but I don't understand what is going on. I don't want to have to get rid of him, but he is clearly so unhappy with us. I don't know what we are doing wrong. Any help would be appreciated.

Backstory on our chin: His previous owner had him from birth. They said he was a nice chin, and never had any problems. He was with the previous owner for a few years, but was for the last few months before we took him, he was living in their basement. They did mention that dogs had been around him, and that it never seemed to bother him. I don't know if that could be playing into any of this. But now, our chin is in a large cage, not anywhere near any animals, in my boyfriends room. So, he receives daily attention.

Thank you!
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GrayRodent

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Re: Horribly Aggressive Chin Behavior, HELP
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2013, 04:01:59 PM »

Sounds like you might want to get him examined by a vet and check for a physical problem. Find a vet that specializes in exotics. How is his food and water consumption and fecal output? What does his diet look like?
That is one possibility. Another possibility is the way you handle his behavior. When he is being aggressive how do you respond?
Sometimes things get complicated with animals where they think they can condition you to do things a certain way.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 04:16:26 PM by GrayRodent »
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Stitch2587

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Re: Horribly Aggressive Chin Behavior, HELP
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2013, 07:02:16 PM »

I see no difference in his fecal output. His diet is timothy hay, and we give him the Kaytee brand food, which is "Fiesta mix - gourmet variety diet". When we originally got him, he was just fed plain pellets, nothing with variety. When we had him examined (about 1 month after we got him), the vet did not see anything wrong with his food choice. He also has fresh water available to him whenever. There has not been any change in his eating habits either.
I think a big problem may be the way we do respond to his behavior. At this point, I don't even know how to respond anymore. When he starts barking, how do we respond to that? Is it best to back off, and leave him alone? How long until you try again?

Also, with the vet check up. I was thinking of doing that, but wasn't sure if I should really pursue doing that. So that was another reason I posted on here, to see if anyone thought that I should maybe try going that route. Is this something that I should still pursue going to, or do you think it could mostly be my response to his behavior?

Thank you for your response.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 10:04:28 AM by Stitch2587 »
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GrayRodent

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Re: Horribly Aggressive Chin Behavior, HELP
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2013, 09:43:18 PM »

Based on what you've said I'm not too concerned about health problems since the obvious signs are absent. Since the behavior is sudden and unusual it won't hurt to give him a checkup just in case.

I am a little concerned about the Fiesta mix diet over the long run. I strongly disagree with your veterinarian and believe that chinchillas are healthiest on an unvaried diet of alfalfa based pellets and loose timothy hay. I think ingredients such as fruits, raisins, and corn will damage their teeth, grains and nuts will damage their liver, and cherry picking stuff out of the mix makes it worse. Lazy eating caused by picking soft stuff out of the mix can lead to fatal tooth problems caused by overgrowth of the teeth.
This philosophy is shared by experts in the chinchilla industry.
Treats such as dried fruits and raisins should only be used as treats for training and interaction and not as a part of their diet and limited to two raisins a day or equivalent mass. That's my two cents on that.

As far as behavior is concerned you have to treat it like a balancing act. If you give in too much your pet will take every liberty it can. If you don't give in at all your pet will be fearful of you. When my chinchilla kacks or is openly aggressive towards me or others I immediately remove him from the cage and hold him until he calms down and then put him back in. If he tries to bite I would hold him for a few additional seconds and wait until he acts calm before I put him in the cage. (Mine hasn't bitten me since the first month I had him but I pushed him too far and knew it). Of course at your discretion since chinchilla bites can be serious. Consistency is also very important. Chinchillas have good memories and they don't like surprises. They are generally fearful of being touched, do not like to be approached from above, and are easily startled by noise. Easing into a new routine is sometimes the best way though and working with them in short sessions about a minute or less will desensitize them to things they don't like if you do it gently.
With that being said you really can't work with a chinchilla that does not willingly come to you on its own and is afraid of you so you'll have to start slow and sit next to the cage for a while and observe him. Offer treats through the bars. You may have to do this several times a day each day until you see improvement. Also don't let him out of the cage to play until you get that back. Then train him in steps, first he should tolerate having you touch him, then pet him, then hold him. Then you can take him out. And be careful to read your chinchilla to make sure you're not scaring him. Fur slip, shaking, and biting are usually signs you have gone too far. In my experience it can take about two months to tame a chinchilla, about six months before he acts friendly and is used to being handled. It took about a year to get mine to where I wanted him to be. It takes patience but you'll probably get there faster since he was doing pretty well to start with. Just start over as you would a new chinchilla.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 09:49:50 PM by GrayRodent »
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Jo Ann

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Re: Horribly Aggressive Chin Behavior, HELP
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 11:51:23 AM »

 :)  When a chinchilla changes (especially suddenly) something caused it.   ::nod::
Now, to figure out what ...
1.  For yourself and anyone around ...  ::)  have you changed soap, shampoo, conditioner, perfume, cologne, tooth paste, mouthwash, dish or clothes washing detergent or softener, medication, food, plants or anything with a smell to it ... no matter how slight the change?  {Chinchillas can be allergic to things the same way humans can}  And, believe it or not, medications, as they are processed in your system, cause you to give off different body odors.  Some scents are soothing, while others can be irritating ... the same scent can be reacted to differently by two different people or by chinchillas.
2.  Is there a new animal or person in the home or nearby outside or even at work or school?  {Dogs barking, birds screeching, cats hissing can all frighten a chin.  Even the smell of something unknown can trigger fear in a chinchilla.}
3.  Have you replaced the carpet, rugs, furnature or clothing or moved recently, on or around the time this started happening?   {Chinchillas do not like change and all of these things do give off different scents/fumes.}
4.   Are their any new members or visitors to your home or even in the neighborhood?   {It could be someone, something or an animal even ... that you may be touching and the scent is remaining on you or your clothing.}
5.  Is there a particular time of the day or night that he may seem more or less 'irritated' at/with your presence?
6.  Is he more irritable with one of your more so than the other?
7.  If you are more affectionate to each other in front of your little one, does it seem to make a difference?  {I had one little one that was jealous of me and my husband.  She claimed my husband as her own, and would spray me if we kissed in front of her.}
8.  Did his/her attitude change after changing her diet? 
Please keep in mind:  All of the 'extras' added to a chinchillas food are for the human's benefit ... not for the chinchilla's health.  We, as humans, want variety ... so ... we think our animals want the same thing ... they may want variety ... but ... it causes more harm than good, especially with chinchillas.   
I've been a breeder for well over 20 years, when a chinchilla becomes ill, most vets that know what they are doing, will tell you put a chin on a strict diet of water and hay to help get it's system back to normal.   A chinchilla can survive on hay and water alone and be very healthy.   In my opinion, and many others who have been around longer than me, stress a treat is just that ... a treat ... and should only be given as a reward, training device or something special.  Giving a chinchilla food with treats mixed in it is like giving a child ice cream and candy with their vegtables ... the kids will eat the ice cream and/or candy and leave the vegtables because that's what tastes the best to them, but it is not the best thing for them.  Chinchillas are like little children, they will have fits to get what they want, even if it is not the best thing for them, or for their health.   {The most heartbreaking story I've ever heard about was a chinchilla that was given a BBQ bone from a rib, by a well-meaning visitor, because the chin was begging for it.  The chin ate it and enjoyed every bite, but died within 24 hours ... chinchillas can not have any meat or meat byproduct ... it will kill them.}   Chinchillas, much like children (and even some adults) do not know what is best for them.   A diet of pellets, fresh crisp hay and water is the best thing for your chinchilla.   Treats should be given very sparingly and only as a special thing (bonding or reward).    The extra  'treats'/additives in your chin's diet may have actually caused the change in your chinchilla by producing a chemical imbalance in your chin's system.  Most manufactures  appeal to you and what you like, not to what is best for your chinchilla.  They do this sometimes out of ignorance, but mostly for the money.   Chinchillas did not have treats or dies or additives in their diet in the wild and could grow to be several healthy pounds, not so in captivity with the 'diets' we often give them.   Please note:  When changing your chin's diet ... even for the better ... it must be done slowly ... over a period of a week or two ... by replacing a portion of the old with the new diet, until it has been changed to the all new, healthy diet completely.  This has to be done slowly so that their system has a chance to adjust to the new, better-for-them diet.
9.   Illness, even though you may not see any signs of it, can cause a chinchilla to become very irritable.  A vet check would not hurt.  But ... with a vet that is very knowledgeable about chinchillas ... not all are what they say they are.   You want an exotic pet vet that has had lots of experience with chinchillas.    Chinchillas rarely need a vet, but when they do, the better the vet, the more likely your little one has a chance to survive it's illness or injury.  Ask the advice of chinchilla owners/breeders in your area when it comes to choosing a vet for your little one.
10.   If you have changed your diet or exercise habits, this will cause you to give off a different odor or scent (breath or body) that may be offensive to your chin.   Turning on the heat at the beginning of the colder temperature weather will put new old, musty scents in the air ... consider this and maybe air-out the house/apartment for about 30 minutes.

Are chinchillas really that sensitive to smells and changes?   Not usually, but they can be.

Should you force the situation and try to make your chinchilla react to you in a more friendly manner?  No, that does not work.

Should you try to figure out what has caused the problem and change the situation?   Yes, if at all possible.

When a chinchilla warns you by trying to run away and hide, by pushing your hands away from him, by fussing/barking at you, spraying or nipping you ... he/she is trying to communicate to you something is wrong or you are doing something that frightens him, please try to figure out what it is and change it.  He/she is a very tiny creature in comparison to size and it is in a world that is alien to it with a great deal of communication difficulty ... he/she is trying to let you know something is wrong ... when you ignore that and try to force the situation, it only makes it worse and much more frustrating for your little chin and, in turn, for yourself.

Lots and lots of patients, trial and error and many, many soft spoken words, affection and good attention seem to work the best in the long run.

Good luck and keep us posted!   I'm anxious to know what the problem/solution turns out to be.   ::nod::

 ::wave::  Jo Ann
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 12:05:12 PM by Jo Ann »
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Lori Ramsey Earle

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Re: Horribly Aggressive Chin Behavior, HELP
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2013, 08:10:33 PM »

The few times that one of my chins started to bite, it was due to them being in pain or discomfort. I would check your chin for a hair ring. Also listen to his stomach - I had one chin with gas pain that became  "bitey". A check up with vet would be a good idea, as they can listen to gut sounds and check your chin out in general. Not that there couldn't be psychological reasons for his behavior, but check for any physical problems first.
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