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[Jasonred79]

Man, chinchillas are sensitive to sugar.

I gave Popsicle 3/4 of a raisin the other day instead of his usual fragment to taste, and he went HYPER for hours, bouncing off the walls at top speed, and he also went off his food for 1 day.

Not doing that again.

[GrayRodent]

Wow, that is very strange. I've never heard of that happening before.
Giving a raisin as a treat to a chinchilla has been standard practice for years in the industry. I know of breeders who have over 1,000 chinchillas on their farm who feed two a day (two whole ones at a time) throughout the lifetime of their animals and have never had problems. I know of people who give them way more than that, (although they really shouldn't as it puts them at risk of bowel problems and malnutrition), and never saw that problem either.
I think your pet has a genetic abnormality of some kind or maybe there was another cause.

[Jasonred79]

It's probably cause I try my best to keep his daily sugar intake low... I limit his treats to apple twigs, rose hips, or fragments of dried strawberries.
Also, it's not like he TOTALLY went off food... just that he's normally a big eater and big pooper, he's like 5.5 months old, and he's grown a LOT in the last month (didn't realise until I saw his old photos), he weighs 510g now.

[kageri]

Raisins are no longer considered a safe treat by most in any amount.  Aside from being unhealthy in sugar some deaths of pets over the past few years were traced to an invisible mold on grapes and raisins.  Some dried berries like goji berries (testing out mulberries myself right now) and fruit with lots of health benefits like papaya are controversial but usually considered fine in small amounts.

The biggest movement for treats is the use of natural edible flowers and herbs.  Rosehips are the new treat item everyone has for daily use.  Low to no sugar cereals are also very acceptable.  Many though rely more on wood treats.  There are 100s of varieties of wood available in fresh twigs, coins, ledges with hardware for mounting, or entire branches minimally processed with the bark still on.  Many chins go nuts for those things more than any healthy or semi healthy treat and you can feed twigs unlimited.

[GrayRodent]

Raisins have been given as a treat in the chinchilla industry and pets for many years and have been proven safe thousands of times over in small amounts. Larger amounts (than two raisins) will have a negative health impact from sugar and that is true of any fruits or berries. In this case it appears there has been some kind of reaction to something and the bottom line is that it was very abnormal.

Any harvested product, including hay and ingredients used in pelleted diets carries a risk of undetectable mold or mold toxins. In fact I've run into problems with that myself with hay. I know of several cases of mycotoxicosis in chinchillas from hay and even poison ivy contamination. These are normal risks that should not prevent anyone from feeding either hay or raisins. Herbs and flowers are no less risky because they too grow in a warm moist environment that can foster dangerous microbes. We can minimize such risks by being observant by smelling and inspecting the things we give our pets and be willing to throw away anything that we suspect might be sour or exposed to excessive moisture. By observing our pets' weight, food consumption, and fecal output each day we can often tell that something is wrong before it gets bad enough to kill our pets or cause sickness. Sometimes, and sadly, the dangers of mycotoxicity are unpreventable and unforseeable but it makes no good sense to live in constant fear of that because it is very rare for such poisoning to have such an acute and lethal onset.

When it comes to giving chinchillas newer types of treats most pet owners are not going to be like the ranchers who necropsy thousands of animals pelted each year and their breeders who live many years having been given raisins on a regular basis as treats. This makes me a little uneasy because we don't have that kind of massive data to prove things other than raisins are safe to feed chinchillas. I'm not saying don't feed your chinchillas these other things but I'm saying that raisins have a good safety record where other health supplement type herbal treats and berries are new and unproven and to proceed with caution. Do not underestimate the sensitivity of the digestive system in chinchillas. There are many ways their internal organs and intestines can be compromised leading to horrible symptoms and expensive and agonizing treatments that can be futile. They thrive on dry and bland diets that are varied as little as possible.

I do completely agree that chinchillas do just fine without regular food treats and I do prefer to not give them except as a training aid in otherwise healthy pets for the reasons outlined above.

[Jasonred79]

hmm... looked up a very common brand of raisin in my country, "Sun Maid" raisins. (wiki says their nutrient content are not uncommmon)

Out of 100grams of raisins... sugar content, 72g... moisture content, less than 19%... hmm...

...

OK, essentially, giving raisins to your chin is practically giving it pure sugar with 10-19% water poured on it.

...

The only reason that a raisin is a "safe" treat is that they are SMALL PORTIONS. In other words, you are more or less feeding poison to your chin, but the amount is below the safety limit, so it's considered "ok".



NO MORE RAISINS FOR MY CHIN.

...

As for the "chinchilla industry proving it safe to give 1-2 raisins a day"... well, a raisin is a dried grape. No more, no less. Based on the size of a chin, 1-2 grapes a day as a treat sounds equal to giving your son 1-2 candy bars a day. ... The "candy industry" will probably insist that it has been proven safe to give your kids 1-2 candy bars a day too...

As for mold, yeah, I agree, in fact I'd say that hay has a higher chance of spoiling or growing mold than raisins do... sadly, there's not much choice there but to continue giving hay and risk it.
Or is there an alternative to hay?

[GrayRodent]

I do agree that treats are mostly bad for chinchillas and absolutely agree there is little nutritional value in them.
The caloric intake of chinchillas comes mostly from the sugar and starch content in hay (for timothy hay it's about 12%). The hay is enough to sustain them but (high quality) pelleted diets are recommended because they are alfalfa hay based which has a different compliment of nutrients, and also is fortified with other things that chinchillas can use.
There really are no good alternatives.

[kageri]

There's risking mold because of a tiny unlikely chance when stored well of a food needed in the diet and then there's a stupid risk because of an item that often grows mold even when harvested and stored correctly that is not needed in the diet.  How often have you run in to moldy hay?  We bale hay, buy hay, sell hay, and feed hay to rabbits, guinea pigs, chinchillas, and horses.  I have seen moldy hay once.  The guinea pigs pulled some down, peed on it, covered it in bedding, and then one ate it and died.  Once in my entire lifespan of raising animals.  There's also a very distinct smell to moldy hay and often visible mold.  The high risk items include peanuts, corn, and grapes/raisins which have killed animals or made people severely ill with no warning even when stored correctly.

Yes there are healthy treats.  Rosehips have no negatives and are often fed daily.  Many dried flowers and herbs have no negatives and are fed several times a week to daily.  Sure some are not safe for that often but many are.  They provide a nice range of nutrients that could be missing from hay and the stuff in pellets is not stable forever.  It's also healthier to get your nutrients from natural sources than from powdered vitamin/mineral supplements which is what pellets and vitamin pills are made of.  Cereals can have sugar but if you pick out the right ones they may have no added sugar or less sugar than your pellets and the same grains as your top pellet ingredients so they are barely any different than feeding pellets.  In fact we are experimenting and researching making a supplement out of grains, herbs, dried flowers, and oil seeds (flax, chia, sunflower) to feed a small amount nightly to each cage.  Basing it on existing supplement mixtures, suggestions for what can be fed how often, and research done in to wild chin diets.

I don't feed any of my other animals on commercial food.  I took several animal nutrition classes in college and then did my own research in to individual needs.  The only thing we have on a commercial pellet is the chins.  All rabbits, dogs, cats, hedgehogs, horses, gerbils... are fed on a species appropriate diet of fresh ingredients.

[GrayRodent]

Actually where I live I have a very big problem with moldy hay. It seems like I'm taking hay back every other time and that is between brands and even stores. I think it may be a problem living in the South where it is very hot and wet.  In fact I went to a stock and feed shop this week to see if I could find a different source because I'm getting sick of having to deal with it. I think it was a contributing factor into my chin's coccidiosis infection last year. I do agree that it's usually pretty obvious when hay is molded and in cases where there is a problem, including mine, is usually from just not being observant enough to catch it early. I have to wonder about the prevalence of fatalities caused by raisins.

The fact remains that raisins still have a good track record in the actual practice of caring for chinchillas.

I am glad you are participating in research and testing. It would be great to have more treats and pelleted diets on the market that are healthy for chins. It seems like a constant struggle here because there are so many that are easily available that are so obviously bad even to my non-expert self. I'm also grateful you're differentiating between herbs that can be fed regularly and those that cannot. I'm always a bit skeptical when it comes to the health food scene because I've encountered a lot of abuses in the past. There are so many claims about things that look good on paper but in practice just don't make much of a difference at all or are extremely harmful. I know personally of someone who was so into diet supplements and herbs that she died because it messed up her ability to metabolize anything. And supposedly it was all natural ingredients. So for the most part, personally, I take the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach but I am always open to read publications and studies.

[Jasonred79]

I'm always scared my hay will go bad, cause I live on the equator and it's hot and HUMID. Any tips on how to tell if the hay has gone off? So far I'm just going by whether it feels dry and solid in my hands, ie isn't rotting. That might not be enough I guess?

[GrayRodent]

I can almost always tell by smelling it. The second indicator can be when your chinchillas stop eating it but not always. Last year I got a batch that smelled okay when I bought it but weeks later my chinchilla stopped eating it. I kept feeding it and he didn't eat much of it. About three weeks later he had loose messy stool and was diagnosed with coccidia. I suspect it was connected because he wasn't getting enough fiber and it facilitated the parasite, which I suspect he was having problems with when I got him, to cause those symptoms.

That week by off chance I noticed that the hay smelled off. In that case it actually went bad in the plastic storage bin where I kept it. That month was also very rainy and warm. Having a plastic bin is probably not the best thing for storing hay but my mom has hay allergies so I try to keep it somewhat sealed up and that can certainly be a factor. But it seems like about every other time I buy hay I end up dumping it into the bin and realizing it's bad and having to take it back to the store for an exchange. I've learned to open the bags at the store and smell them as well and pointing out the bad ones to the staff there but sometimes I still don't smell it until I actually transfer it into my bin at home. It is very aggravating.

Typically with hay, like timothy or alfalfa, if it's really bad you can see dark spots on it when it molds and sometimes it can be light powdery stuff. Unfortunately, although it's somewhat rare, you can have a situation where the hay was exposed to molds from other hay that aren't actually growing and stinking, but the poisons left behind can make animals sick. I used to live in a very hot and dry desert climate when I had horses and had very few problems with moisture. The worst problem there was scorpions liked to live in the hay and they were a nightmare.